Return of Reckoning

Akalukz wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:04 pm

AxelF wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:37 pm

CountTalabecland wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:04 pm Most people on Order, especially those not in the few decently populated guilds, are playing the wrong classes. Doesn't shock me most ppl, especially casual, would rather play dest where they can hop on anything and make it work.

Create an open WB on Order sometime and watch the trash flow in. SW, AM, Engi, WH, and the like everywhere. BW is hit or miss on whether you get someone good.

Somehow to this day it is hard to find Knight, Slayer, WP/RP in sufficient numbers when those classes are about all Order has left. All in all, too few tanks, too few heals, too few MDPS.

The problem is though the 'good' wb classes on order have had the fun sucked out of them. I have a high rr RP and WP and reasonably high rr Knight and IB. When I get bored of running in WBs though, the off spec for all of them has been gutted.

Knight has had all of its useful, interesting and unique tools nerfed into the ground or just removed. RP has had the only viable tool that made them a semi decent DPS pick - the AoE heal debuff - removed as a needless byproduct of the DPS DoK nerf. IBs are suffering massively from only doing physical damage in a game where armour values have gone through the roof with the new gear sets. WP has a really interesting, challenging and fun spec in the melee healer, but it's completely unviable in large scale PvP.

I don't have a high lvl slayer but they're massively dependant on both a pocket tank and a pocket healer. Between work and family I don't have enough time to play with a guild that wants 3 nights a week 7-11, so a guaranteed guard and healer is not happening - you roll the dice in a PUG WB which is ridiculously frustrating and not fun to play.

In the face of that what is the easy answer for people? Roll a self sufficient, kiting ranged class, or a WL (also massively, though probably justifiably nerfed). They're fun and not dependent on others - you can have consistent fun every time you log in. The consequence though is the WB scale action suffers massively. And if enough people take that logical path you end up where we are.

On the other side things are just a bit easier in terms of classes that are fun to play solo/duo, but also perform really well in WBs. Shammy, SH, mara, DoK, Chosen. Sure there are classes like WE/WH that suck equally in WB settings, but as has been said destro has better synergy between more classes at the WB scale, and a lot of those classes also have fun/powerful off specs for that down time when you're not in a WB.

This rings true imo as well. Additionally the uniqueness of order has been transferred to destro, so why play order when you can play badass looking destro. If anything we have proven looks matter with all the whining about the appearance nerf.

This must be asked to devs not our fault if order looks lame. Honestly i always played destro even when WL were op and i can tell ya: instead of whine on forum make a guild or alliance (not a fail guild of 2 members online) and start make organized wb rvr you will see sitauation changing. Whiners are in destro too but we kind "isolate" them (god bless autoband addon). For example this mornign we raped altdorf once again because in general we made a guild/alliance premade with class setup and proper gear. This is not a issue of "specop omgomgomg" simply we used discord and coordinated.

CeeJay89 wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:03 pm Roaming is also dead because there's no incentive. There are more rewards and contribution to be had by following the zerg. It's also dominated by one side at this time for reasons everyone knows but refuses to admit and instead defends those reasons. For the rest, it's again a matter of the rewards not reflecting the effort. Most only do it long enough to get enough contribution for a bag roll.

We must be playing different game because I have tons of fun roaming as orda, even if it's with severely undergeared toons barely out of T3 (when I left orda for des beastlord was still BiS). Getting bags, medallions, lots of fun and satisfaction is good enough reward for me but then again I don't rush to sovereign so maybe that's why

Sure, des are everywhere these days and it's hard to find them in packs of 4 or lower but that's always a risk you run when roaming. A year ago when I was roaming on SH orda was everywhere and des were on the defensive. IC was pillaged and burned twice a day, Alt standing proud with 5 stars to IC's one, dampened spirits and defeatism in chats with visions of dev bias tied to it. New players didn't know what to do in the lakes and veterans couldn't be bothered to teach them. Pugs were wiped in minutes and organised warbands stood just a little longer.

And then destro were told to "git gud". And gud we did become.

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Sure, order has a hard time now since des are outnumbering and often times outgearing them (what had happened to all those sov wearing ordas? ). But when order does things by the book in the lakes, holding those lines, challenging, swapping guards, healing out of the group and focusing targets than even those undergeared lowbies can give des a run for their money. Stop their charge. Concentrate fire, kill or disable casters and meatballs... It's doable. And both order and destro knows it.

There is no "they have better classes" - it's truly funny how both sides think that the best stuff in game is on the other side. There's a lot of misinformation on both sides but at least destro stopped convincing people to go with 600tough tanks (remember the time when both sides stacked armour and dot-based classes had a field day? ). Order /ad, /1 and /3 still seems to believe hitting them harder with 2H is the answer to everything and 600 tough is enough for tanks.

It is not.

Then there is this weird dps fetish that most des had forsaken but order still clings to. Dps tanks. Dps healers. Dps unloading on tanks while their heals or casters stand unharrased. Healers stacking in one spot for meatballs to actively teabag them, their channels uninterrupted. Did I mention 200hp hots? No wonder order thinks AMs are weak...


Another thing is economy. Destro stat and armour pots are affordable and plenty on AH. Armour pots were so cheap at one point that it was better to buy them than spend gold on containers to make them. Seriously.
On order they are way overpriced, mostly for T4 and often not even in stacks of 40. I can buy 80 pots on destro for a price of order 30.

That's main reason why destro pugs run with twin pots on while order pugs have none. And it shows in the lakes.
(Fortunately prices have started going down for order.)


Last but not least: balls (of steel). Not really faction issue but ppl seem to be afraid of dying. This is not Log Horizon (go watch it ) where you pay with your soul for every respawn. Few silvers for a healer is a small price to pay for giving your side a chance to push and brake that camp blockade. It's not like we're playing pro FPS and masturbate to K/D ratio.
Hell, I remember when order was dominating (and collecting their royals and invaders while farming city) and destro were reluctant to go to city to deny opposition. Same thing, different faction now.


TL:DR: faction domination periods come and go. If the old ways are not working try out new paths. And playing the winning side is too boring in the long run

1) Orders play vs swarm of shamans, squiggers and witch elfs, 60% of destro play this chars now. The orders don't have chars like this with same power and disapointment for this.
2) Destro working any day all day in any zone and all zones frenzie for ranking keeps. The orders hate this part of game (i don't know why) but this part is important.
3) All order big and strong guilds is semiactive or gone, all great and experience realm leaders is gone, like Cature, Avocetti, and many more. Orders follow pug wb's and run zone to zone without tacticts and plans and after the first lose leave the wb's.
I don't want to say for nerfing for outnumbers for xrealming, all known for this. At least how to follow 1 player 1 faction whitout hope to win just 1 to 5 odds ?
This is a some order problems, and not only this. The game need some deep changes i think for the greater good.