M0rw47h wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 1:42 pmSM isn't less desirable for couple of reasons:Omegus wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 12:50 pm 2h tank and dps AM are not classes. All 3 tank classes can spec to useful city roles (SM less desired out of the 3)
- Whispering Winds is MvP;
- group bubble;
- aoe frontal cone interrupt;
- aoe damage reduction on finisher (20%);
- aoe debuff which causes lots of healing;
Yes, they can. You still don't want more than one in WB, 2nd can be seen already as hinderance.
Myself I'm fan of two AMs as they can pump faster, insta rez each other, slow down meatgrinder with puddles etc - but it doesn't change fact, that once we finish building our organized warbands there are plenty of people of given class left out as not wanted. While AM is better than Shaman as utility class it's much worse healer and you want people taking healer spots to actualy heal, not pull tricks out of their sleeves.
Same as with AM, you mostly likely don't want more than one and it has to be already good geared to have any impact. You can't stack aSW like destro stacks mSH and profit. Sadly, once again many players are left alone and not wanted by 'us' (organized warbands).
People not willing to respec cause my blood to oil, but what can I do?Omegus wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 12:50 pm I understand the frustration for people who play classes where nobody wants them regardless of what spec they went, but if people aren't willing to respec for an hour to a different role to get mad loot then **** them. Otherwise, I want to be able to go in on my 1050 intel Zealot (which does terrible damage btw, even with Divine Fury and Bloodlord for an extra 30%) and get easy loot.
Spoiler:Thats great, but we don't want to bring mix of WPs and AMs. We want WPs combined with RPs and usualy one AM - our healer population doesn't help us building healthy warbands. While this may not be issue for organized guilds, as we often switch between characters to get better warband composition, it's awful for PUGs you're facing.Omegus wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 12:50 pm And going by those graphs of order classes seen, order are not lacking for healers. There's a WP army outthere somewhere.
Yet, you don't want to overstack aSW, WHs and pugs have too many of those due to bad class balance as they ain't usualy wanted for organized WBs with higher quantities than one per WB. The only mDPS order can stack is SL and WL, when destro can stack Choppy boys, mSH and Maras - it makes HUGE difference. WH and WE share same problems.Omegus wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 12:50 pm The main difference is destro dps in general are doing easy AOE which can put out a lot of pressure but can struggle to secure kills quickly. Order MDPS like the WL, ASW and WH need to be running an assist train (the Slayers can join in too) and when it's done properly it tears a massive hole in the destro backlines which can be very difficult to recover from. Order have to try harder but when they do they can get far more kills in cities.
Order outnumbers Destro only at odd hours or when destro wants to get pushed. It sad, but thats how it lately is.TreefAM wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 12:53 pm Oh please, its not rare for Order to outnumber destro in the lakes for a period of time, like yesterday when you got smashed in BC and Cale or this morning in CW.
But you guys keep insta logging after the first wipe.
I agree, if we will ever get something like weekly contribution rewards, winning a City should matter.Nekkma wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 pm I like your idea. I too think that current reward structure need a substantial rework. One thing I would like to add is that winning a city should also be factored in the reward system. Back when we had stage 3 king instance, it was a realm wide goal to to win city. The best wb guilds actively sought to face other premade wbs to ensure victory.
I also hope, someday City stars will affect gameplay, not just City Siege rewards.
People try to get as much rewards as possible, due to how hard is to get City Siege lately in reasonable hours. Its known Destruction has to instantly que to get into City Siege, so Order can try to 'choose' their opponents. However, you need to keep in mind, it's not as easy to build multiple balanced premade warbands on side, which is lacking players - it takes time, often we que 10 minutes before end of signups, because we we're looking for people or waiting for people who really can't be replaced.Nekkma wrote: Mon May 18, 2020 1:34 pm Atm, I get the feeling that some guilds try to avoid premade wbs to stomp pugs by queing late.
Two properly played (all one of them) AM’s actually output insane **** healing (aka not rezzbots) OR you can ‘sack’ one parties healing for a Pumpbot to SF on two Knights - again most AM’s are dogshit and can’t do this. I actually had to log my AM for one city just to prove I wasn’t crazy and could solo-pump two SF’s pretty regularly (granted your second healer has to carry your party and most players on this server are awful and can’t do that). There’s not a single organized WB that wouldn’t take well played AM’s, issue is every AM player is pretty much trash except one - and he knows who he is.
A properly played ASW (or two) isn’t so bad in a properly played and ran WB (more so IC than Altdorf) but again you run into the issue of all except like 5 are bad players and don’t have a redeeming quality. Same thing goes with a WH. The best way to utilize one is to DG HD the entire back line, focus healers, and enable the WH/WL to M2 drop at 18s instead of 30s and give Order a faster drop with their BW. Same issues keep cropping up where a vast majority of WH’s are bad players (seeing a theme yet?).
The reason Destro feels so much better is because the BO crutch and the inability of order pugs to plan and play around this where as Destro’s win condition falls into their lap more easily and much earlier. Most people who play this game are mindless zergs who don’t know what all of their abilities do let alone what any of their allies or enemies abilities do, how to properly spec, position, or what their role is in their party/WB. Outside of how freely BO gets M3 (and even this is more of a crutch than an I-WIN button for most people) 99% of losses are not balance related in cities but entirely L2P player issues. People don’t want to try, people don’t want to get better, and people sure as **** don’t want to play team oriented.
