[WE] OYK vs Dragon Gun

[Sarnai]

WH builds to a big payoff, if they use DG, where it's applied to everyone within 48ft, unlike WE who gets to apply it once per 2 seconds, if rng wills it, on a single target.

So mathematically, with the aoe cap of 24 WE would need frame perfect procs, with perfect rng over a minute to equal the procs of one good DG shot gets.

The healduff proc is 5s, DG's cooldown is 10s, allowing 5s of full healing in between procs. Without a CD decreaser, there is no way for a WH to keep a continuous outgoing heal debuff on a healer, which a WE can with her kisses proccing so frequently. And as I said before, if your healers are dumb enough to all be standing close enough that one DG hits them you should be looking at them before DG. Hitting 24 targets isn't a 'good DG', it's 'god-awful positioning.'

For argument's sake, let's say the ICD is removed from kisses and now OYK can proc potentially on every target it hits. Then so can spamming Slice with Broad Severing. So can all attacks using Broad Swings M3. Now you're handing out debuffs every second spamming Slice and then hitting OYK again once the CD is up. WH/WE are struggling hard for a place in WBs/cities, believe me I understand that. But if you think letting your kisses proc on all OYK targets will suddenly have WBs begging for WEs to join them....well DG already does that, and there's still not much of a place for WHs in city.

Dragon Gun/OYK aren't the roots or the answers to either of our class's problems.

From what i see WH get taken for their morale drain more so than anything else. WE is taken because you are friends with the lead and the Marauder couldn't be assed to show up. Because they do basically everything we do, except better.

Especially, in Altdorf there are many choke points, where if you can't hit at least the majority of the wb, with your 48ft radius, 30ft range finisher that's a you problem, while we are restrained by the will of the machine spirit, where we can't have more than a single proc in 2s and then have a 1/4 chance to actually proc something, which makes it luck more so than anything else. They hit like something you should be able to proc frequently, but reality is quite different. Kiss of Betrayal is basically useless against players(20ap/2s at best) and Kiss of death basically relies on the other healer being on a bio break.

I can hit your WB at a chokepoint because you got yourself stuck in a chokepoint. Again, my DG isn't good, your positioning is bad. If your frontline is stuck in a chokepoint, I can't get through either. If your healers are within 30ft behind your front line and my DG still gets them, that ain't on me my friend.

You're right that Maras get taken more than WEs on Destro because they play the morale game better, but getting aoe kisses added to OYK isn't going to change that. The only reason any of us are brought is for morale drain, and WHs are lucky enough (sorta, sucks majorly for Order as a realm) that we're the only game in town for morale drain on our side. And even then, the organized WBs generally only bring 1 and /5 is flooded with WHs during city queueing.

[sighy]

Spoiler:

The healduff proc is 5s, DG's cooldown is 10s, allowing 5s of full healing in between procs. Without a CD decreaser, there is no way for a WH to keep a continuous outgoing heal debuff on a healer, which a WE can with her kisses proccing so frequently. And as I said before, if your healers are dumb enough to all be standing close enough that one DG hits them you should be looking at them before DG. Hitting 24 targets isn't a 'good DG', it's 'god-awful positioning.'

For argument's sake, let's say the ICD is removed from kisses and now OYK can proc potentially on every target it hits. Then so can spamming Slice with Broad Severing. So can all attacks using Broad Swings M3. Now you're handing out debuffs every second spamming Slice and then hitting OYK again once the CD is up. WH/WE are struggling hard for a place in WBs/cities, believe me I understand that. But if you think letting your kisses proc on all OYK targets will suddenly have WBs begging for WEs to join them....well DG already does that, and there's still not much of a place for WHs in city.

Dragon Gun/OYK aren't the roots or the answers to either of our class's problems.

From what i see WH get taken for their morale drain more so than anything else. WE is taken because you are friends with the lead and the Marauder couldn't be assed to show up. Because they do basically everything we do, except better.

Especially, in Altdorf there are many choke points, where if you can't hit at least the majority of the wb, with your 48ft radius, 30ft range finisher that's a you problem, while we are restrained by the will of the machine spirit, where we can't have more than a single proc in 2s and then have a 1/4 chance to actually proc something, which makes it luck more so than anything else. They hit like something you should be able to proc frequently, but reality is quite different. Kiss of Betrayal is basically useless against players(20ap/2s at best) and Kiss of death basically relies on the other healer being on a bio break.

I can hit your WB at a chokepoint because you got yourself stuck in a chokepoint. Again, my DG isn't good, your positioning is bad. If your frontline is stuck in a chokepoint, I can't get through either. If your healers are within 30ft behind your front line and my DG still gets them, that ain't on me my friend.

You're right that Maras get taken more than WEs on Destro because they play the morale game better, but getting aoe kisses added to OYK isn't going to change that. The only reason any of us are brought is for morale drain, and WHs are lucky enough (sorta, sucks majorly for Order as a realm) that we're the only game in town for morale drain on our side. And even then, the organized WBs generally only bring 1 and /5 is flooded with WHs during city queueing.

There are many situations, especially in Altdorf, where chokes are benefitial to us. (covering for engra around docks is a good example) Depends on comps and situations, as to when choke is good. DoKs are always midrange, for their essence lash and if we were talking "optimal" placement you could reach up to 78ft distance.(point is there is skill involved, in getting the most out of it)

OYK+Kisses interaction correction wouldn't fix all our issues, even by a long shot, but it would be a step, in the right direction of giving us something to work with in WBs. WH at least have thos 1-2 spots due to morale drain monopoly. Generally i think that WEs and WHs should be coming up, with as many ideas as we can, because if we don't we surrender to being forever in a ditch, with decapitated top down balance.