Return of Reckoning

What I was asking is wP and DoK were designed to be full melee healer career , but slowly turn to be use as backline , just by in and out range to recover RF . So does player started played them for something they were not designed for (backline healer) or is there something we can do to improve the melee healer design

I was taking by reference the In Game career and path description :

Warrior Priest
Warrior Priest
archetype: Healer • special mechanic: Righteous Fury

class details: Close-combat healers, Warrior Priests use Righteous Fury to power their support and healing magic. Righteous Fury builds up via dedicated prayers and melee combat, and as a result Warrior Priests have to be actively involved on the front lines to be able to support their groups.

description: The Warrior Priests worship Sigmar, the now-deified warrior who united the tribes of man and formed the Empire long ago. In honor of their legendary patron, the Warrior Priests seek to follow in Sigmar's warrior path by purifying the Empire with equal measures of prayer and might. They march into battle shouting holy scriptures even as they bring their blessed warhammers to bear in the name of their god. By proving their devotion and righteousness through valor in combat, they are rewarded with divine powers, which manifest in the form of potent healing abilities. Their presence on the front lines of battle serves as a constant inspiration to the soldiers who march in defense of the Empire.

mechanic: Sigmar is a warrior god, and his priests gain divine favor only by fighting to defend the Empire that he built. The holy symbol of Sigmar is a hammer, and the Warrior Priests have adopted the warhammer as their weapon of choice in honor of their patron. The Righteous Fury of Sigmar fills the Warrior Priest with each swing of their weapon, and this divine power can then be used to fuel their healing magic. This becomes something of both a freedom and a restriction for the Warrior Priest - since all of his magic is powered by Righteous Fury, he can throw himself wholeheartedly into melee combat and then still have resources left to heal with, but at the same time, his healing capabilities become dramatically more limited when there are no enemies in arm's reach.

master classes:
Salvation A Mastery path focused on healing and restorative powers.
The Path of Salvation focuses on divine magic, primarily healing abilities. A player who specializes in Salvation will become a much more powerful healer, although they will still need to place themselves into the front lines of a melee combat in order to build up their Righteous Fury.

Grace A Mastery path focused on melee attacks and protective effects.
The Path of Grace is centered around melee attacks which inspire and bolster the Warrior Priest and his allies. A Master of Grace will be able to simultaneously wreak havoc upon his enemies with his warhammer and improve himself and his companions, making him an especially valuable player when standing side-by-side with other allies.

Wrath A Mastery path focused on melee attacks and weakening effects.
The Path of Wrath is focused on crippling melee attacks which weaken, hinder, and harass the player's opponents. Someone who specializes in Wrath will certainly be the most offensively-focused type of Warrior Priest, as they will be both damaging their enemies and weakening them with each swing of their warhammer

Do we have a source where they say it was intended to be a FULL melee career?

In any case, even backline healers end up being in melee anyway since they can't properly kite and heal like a Zealot or Shaman. Which is why they have (had?) an AoE detaunt tactic and medium armor.

Just linked mythic source above

From the description you pasted, it talks mostly about being in the frontlines (which they usually end up doing anyway in all specs for the reasons i mentioned).

As for Grace, it doesn't say anywhere that it should be as good at healing your whole group as a "backline" healer. It only mentions being a valuable companion that can improve himself and his companions, which they are.

Penril wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:32 pm From the description you pasted, it talks mostly about being in the frontlines (which they usually end up doing anyway in all specs for the reasons i mentioned).

As for Grace, it doesn't say anywhere that it should be as good at healing your whole group as a "backline" healer. It only mentions being a valuable companion that can improve himself and his companions, which they are.

It mention mastery path focused on mêlée attacks. Also it does mention front line everywhere , at least they said WP should have stronger heal capabilities at melee , their best way to heal shouldn’t be at backline maybe ?

Class details seems very obvious and clear :

class details: Close-combat healers, Warrior Priests use Righteous Fury to power their support and healing magic. Righteous Fury builds up via dedicated prayers and melee combat, and as a result Warrior Priests have to be actively involved on the front lines to be able to support their groups.

Grunbag wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:35 pm
It mention mastery path focused on mêlée attacks. Also it does mention front line everywhere , at least they said WP should have stronger heal capabilities at melee , their best way to heal shouldn’t be at backline maybe ?

Backline = casters (i was gonna call them book/chalice healers, but some melee healers use these items; not all go 2H hammer or Dual Swords). Now that we established that, a caster can be stronger when at melee range. For starters, they need to get close to the front lines in order to Essence Lash and Smite. A Dok could run a weird spec with Transferred Focus and increase the healing on a target by 20%. WP, as you mentioned, is better with Exalted Defenses. I know ED can proc from ranged attacks as well, but being in the frontlines pretty much guarantees a 100% uptime (being in the backline you sometimes never even get one proc).

Grunbag wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:35 pm
Class details seems very obvious and clear :

class details: Close-combat healers, Warrior Priests use Righteous Fury to power their support and healing magic. Righteous Fury builds up via dedicated prayers and melee combat, and as a result Warrior Priests have to be actively involved on the front lines to be able to support their groups.

Does close-combat mean hitting people with a stick while keeping your whole group alive, or just being engaged in close-combat, period? Cause as i mentioned, casters end up in the frontline a LOT of times. Have you ever tried kiting superior numbers with a Shaman/Zealot and then with a Dok? Dok/WP get caught a lot, and this is where you think "thank god i have medium armor, AoE detaunt and fast group heals so i can keep healing without worrying about setback".

I’m not trying to convince anyone , you asked for Melee sources , I haven’t read any backline words in any WP / DoK desc. But it doesn’t matter , nothing is planned for them anyway

Grunbag wrote: Fri Apr 12, 2019 8:55 pm I’m not trying to convince anyone , you asked for Melee sources , I haven’t read any backline words in any WP / DoK desc. But it doesn’t matter , nothing is planned for them anyway

I did, and nowhere in your source does it say that they should only be able to heal their allies by hitting enemies. It only says that they are meant to be played in the frontlines. Which they currently end up doing a LOT of times in pretty much all setups/playstyles.

I am not trying to convince anyone as well. I am only trying to make you question yourselves: is a spec bad just because i can't make it work at certain things? Or maybe, just maybe, that spec is simply meant to be used somewhere else and therefore doesn't really need a huge buff?

Most of the buffs/nerfs in this game are pretty much decided this way:

- Spec A is good for X.
- Spec B is bad for X but good at Y.
- Players who like doing X make a 50 page thread complaining about how crappy Spec B is compared to Spec A, and demand it is made equally viable.
- Players who don't like doing X don't care, because it doesn't affect Y.
- Spec B is changed. Now it is good at X, but complete crap at Y.

I’m not sure that mythic designed 95% of RF build with 10ft range abilites only for a solo perspective and build 2 high radius abilties for being able to be backline . If they wanted them to be backline spec , I think mythic would give them another mechanic or more tool to build RF at range

THere is this quote from mythic dev that makes me think they were not done with WP / DoK :
« To be 100% frank any ranged caster will not get the same level of survivability a career we intend to be in the middle of a fight to get. Now The complaint of WP/DoK can stand back and heal from a distance as well as I can is also valid and rest assured we will do more to make sure that these classes are close to The fight where they belong to be 100% effective. »

It’s from 2011