Return of Reckoning

Azarael, the Axeman tree is still a great location for our traditional White Lion build. I personally feel that the White Lion can now be potentially separated into three paths: Warband aoe (Woodsman), Independent Mdps (Axeman), and Pet Support (Hunter).

Categorizing them this way would be amazing for White Lions, and allow them to either go with an all out loner spec with a heavy focus on Sundering Chop, or go the route of Pet Supporter with heavy focus on abilities like Coordinated Strike. This way, all manner of playstyles can be attained just by switching between the three mastery trees.

My proposal earlier was to simply bring back the Guardian playstyle and simply put them all into the Hunter tree. If you want to balance around 1 v 1, you can even make the pet's strength and weaponskill be dependent on our strength from gear (Kind of like the Bouncin SH). This way, we'd lose pretty much all the survivability we had as Guardian White Lions (if that's what the community wants) while still maintaining the core playstyle we loved so much. I actually enjoyed supporting and managing my pet, the only thing I've ever yearned for in the Guardian playstyle was more pet survivability. Abilities like Coordinated Strike and Pack Synergy can simply all be moved to the Hunter tree.

The Axeman tree can be heavily focused on a loner build. Many White Lions hate the liability of a pet and prefer being a standard burst mdps on their own (Yomaria comes to mind). So as mentioned earlier, this tree could place a heavy emphasis on abilities like Sundering Chop, Lion's Fury, and the Loner tactic.

Finally, the Woodsman tree actually looks pretty cool. It was obviously designed for very up close and personal fights against larger forces in warband play. But without the Marauder's Monstrosity stance (Armor Penetration) and healing potential, I feel the aoe spec is being robbed of something tremendously valuable.

As a final note, we don't need to be exact mirrors of Marauders. We have a pet. That alone makes the class unique. I think it's a waste to treat that pet as a detriment. The only thing I'd ask for all three specs is damage mitigation of some sort in extreme situations like the Marauders currently have right now with the monstrosity stance. Thank you

I meant no problem with old guardian tree beiing to strong. Sorry have not expressed myself well. For 6v6 and WBs there must be other solutions beside completely changing the playstyle of the class.

Gandresch, for competitive 6v6, it just makes more sense to either make the pet invulnerable to damage (unlikely) or simply make a spec without one. The Axeman tree would be a great spot for a competitive 6v6 loner spec. I would also propose that our new incoming heal debuff be moved to that tree as well to legitimize the loner spec as the spec of choice for tournament style play.

The problem is that Guardian was broken. You know it, I know it. Why would we want to bring it back as it was?

Also, you're not going to isolate Hunter from Axeman when you can dip into both trees and have no limiter, and you're forgoing the debuff part of Marauder to recreate Mythic's fault, which is multiple trees based on dealing damage with mixed skills all over the place.

gandresch wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 8:53 pm I love the playstyle with the pet. That is the reason i am playing the WL. There was not a problem before the guardian change. The pet should stay of course.

I hope you reverse it and do some little changes and dont plan to make the WL an order marauder.

why not? wl was just silly. just too strong in 1vs1 before. burst damage for 6vs6 they were never lacking before silly guardian buff.... just the possibilities for wb's

the only playstyle the were lacking was wb. and thats getting better now

Azarael wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:32 pm The problem is that Guardian was broken. You know it, I know it. Why would we want to bring it back as it was?

Also, you're not going to isolate Hunter from Axeman when you can dip into both trees and have no limiter, and you're forgoing the debuff part of Marauder to recreate Mythic's fault, which is multiple trees based on dealing damage with mixed skills all over the place.

But guardian was “broken” because of its survivability. It’s damage is not much different from the hunter/axe build. That’s why I was saying you can link the pet’s strength and weaponskill to our strength from gear and tune the numbers as you see fit. That way, we no longer stack toughness and wounds for damage returns. The playstyle or damage was never broken, it was the ratio of damage to defenses that people hated so much.

As for picking things from other trees, I loved what you guys did with the melee squig herder. Everything mandatory was simply in one tree. This led to three separate playstyles available for the squig herder. If it’s a points allocation issue, you can simply add mandatory things we use in guardian that are currently core, and simply put it in the tree so we’re forced to spec it.

You are one of the many wl's that could take any rdps or healer from 100% to 0% by simply pressing 1 2 3 4. So, now the class is getting tweaked and your response is "IQUIT". Why don't you continue to test and let Azarael keep tweaking as he sees fit? SEVERAL people posted screenshots showcasing the idiotic burst potential the class had. You were king of the solo game, king of the small scale skirmishes, and absolutely had a spot in a 6-man (name one order "6-man" that didn't run a WL continuously?). The class was simply idiotic in every way from mobility to insane burst. You basically had everything condensed into one package (minus warband play, oh no?).

soliticks wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:17 pm Gandresch, for competitive 6v6, it just makes more sense to either make the pet invulnerable to damage (unlikely) or simply make a spec without one. The Axeman tree would be a great spot for a competitive 6v6 loner spec. I would also propose that our new incoming heal debuff be moved to that tree as well to legitimize the loner spec as the spec of choice for tournament style play.

Current WL specs function perfectly fine for 6v6, and Revenge! is more than good for helping you when pet is dead.

Renork wrote: Sat Aug 25, 2018 9:51 pm You are one of the many wl's that could take any rdps or healer from 100% to 0% by simply pressing 1 2 3 4. So, now the class is getting tweaked and your response is "IQUIT". Why don't you continue to test and let Azarael keep tweaking as he sees fit? SEVERAL people posted screenshots showcasing the idiotic burst potential the class had. You were king of the solo game, king of the small scale skirmishes, and absolutely had a spot in a 6-man (name one order "6-man" that didn't run a WL continuously?). The class was simply idiotic in every way from mobility to insane burst. You basically had everything condensed into one package (minus warband play, oh no?).

Hmm not sure what you’re talking about. I never requested guardian to be brought back to what it was. Maybe it’s what you want to see from me or something? As for 6v6, I’ve never even heard of a guardian being taken to one. Or are you saying that our traditional hunter/axe build is op as well? I’m not sure where you’re going with this.

Is it possible to do something not to retake the same stance ? With a message like "Already in Hunter's Craft Stance"
Taking another cd of 5 sec for a miss clic (that i do a lot ) is quite annoying during a fight. That's was already hard to me on my marau and my sw, so maybe if you can make a pack for old player that shiver a lot