Return of Reckoning

Martok wrote: Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:12 pm

sunnyray wrote: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:50 amWE's finishers are underpowered.

Witch Elf openers are not. The Witch Elf class already benefits from opening attacks which cannot be defended against combined with Stealth, a three-second knock-down, a four-second disarm, a six-second disable, DOTS which can never be blocked or parried, and offensive abilities which already ignore an opponents armor. Now you want to buff "finishers" under the specious assertion the class is somehow under-powered. And yes, I have a Witch Elf toon, created and played primarily as a learning and moderating exercise.

I have stated this prior, but consider it worth repeating. If a player can not take the Witch Elf class as is and be successful with it, that is a player issue and not a class issue.

Those are perfect mirrored with wh.....what is different are finisher...and class diversit in use/build meccanics.

Both class can opener + kd and be at 3/5 mec points with 2 global cd.

-WH will use tactic so that finisher will refill the mec poonts and he will spam finishers which also auto proc the bullets....(dosent mater if bal or exit wounds)

-WE will use crit tactic and spam aw cuz more crit and chance to proc kiss IS THE SAME as use or not finisher.

WE style is blank.

Hecc wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:27 am Remove GCD from WB.

Pretty much that.

Tesq wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:33 pm

Those are perfect mirrored with wh (the opening hits).....what is different are finisher...and class diversit in use/build meccanics.

Except that the WE has the advantage of Kisses proc from the first hit. WH has to apply a finisher. And with the +15% crit the WE has, a Witch Elf has great opening damage. Which is why their finishers are not so great.

Correctly played, a WE does not need to apply a finisher, Its burst damage from the first blow is just one of the top 3 opening bursts in game. This of course gives the WE the option to slot the AoE KD on a finisher and escape from a bad situation.

drmordread wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:35 pm This of course gives the WE the option to slot the AoE KD on a finisher and escape from a bad situation.

a recent change

drmordread wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:35 pm

Tesq wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:33 pm

Those are perfect mirrored with wh (the opening hits).....what is different are finisher...and class diversit in use/build meccanics.

Except that the WE has the advantage of Kisses proc from the first hit. WH has to apply a finisher. And with the +15% crit the WE has, a Witch Elf has great opening damage. Which is why their finishers are not so great.

Correctly played, a WE does not need to apply a finisher, Its burst damage from the first blow is just one of the top 3 opening bursts in game. This of course gives the WE the option to slot the AoE KD on a finisher and escape from a bad situation.

Yes and use finisher remove the tactics bonus so?

This is a risk tactic for a we, if you use a finisher then your dmg overall gona drop istantly. If the finsher is not worth the trade off because there is a trade off none gona use finishers.

WH finisher spam make these typeof skill not finisher anymore.
If WE finisher get fix then WEb players will.use them as what name says.... as finisher!!! So they finish off a target which also mean if done badly they will loose dps.

May be WEs dont use finishers cos 15 crit is much more valuable. So may be the problem is that the tactic is too good (esp at conq level of gear).
Remove the tactic and ppl will use more often the finishers. The minor added buffs was decent move so do similar for rest of the finishers

Tesq wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:44 pm

drmordread wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:35 pm

Tesq wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:33 pm

Those are perfect mirrored with wh (the opening hits).....what is different are finisher...and class diversit in use/build meccanics.

Except that the WE has the advantage of Kisses proc from the first hit. WH has to apply a finisher. And with the +15% crit the WE has, a Witch Elf has great opening damage. Which is why their finishers are not so great.

Correctly played, a WE does not need to apply a finisher, Its burst damage from the first blow is just one of the top 3 opening bursts in game. This of course gives the WE the option to slot the AoE KD on a finisher and escape from a bad situation.

Yes and use finisher remove the tactics bonus so?

This is a risk tactic for a we, if you use a finisher then your dmg overall gona drop istantly. If the finsher is not worth the trade off because there is a trade off none gona use finishers.

WH finisher spam make these typeof skill not finisher anymore.
If WE finisher get fix then WEb players will.use them as what name says.... as finisher!!! So they finish off a target which also mean if done badly they will loose dps.

OK I can see what you are saying, but the other thing I am thinking about is this;

The WE is pretty damn good class, great opening burst damage that no one can deny. If we add more powerful finishers, then you are going to have a class that high high OPENING damage and now higher FINISHING damage too.
If we add better finishers, then I think it would only be fair to reduce the opening burst damage.

The issue isn't adding more powerful finishers; it's making its EXISTING finishers actually worth using! The entire idea behind their mechanic is that you build stacks to unleash powerful finishers... - ptp3

drmordread wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Tesq wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:44 pm

drmordread wrote: Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:35 pm

Except that the WE has the advantage of Kisses proc from the first hit. WH has to apply a finisher. And with the +15% crit the WE has, a Witch Elf has great opening damage. Which is why their finishers are not so great.

Correctly played, a WE does not need to apply a finisher, Its burst damage from the first blow is just one of the top 3 opening bursts in game. This of course gives the WE the option to slot the AoE KD on a finisher and escape from a bad situation.

Yes and use finisher remove the tactics bonus so?

This is a risk tactic for a we, if you use a finisher then your dmg overall gona drop istantly. If the finsher is not worth the trade off because there is a trade off none gona use finishers.

WH finisher spam make these typeof skill not finisher anymore.
If WE finisher get fix then WEb players will.use them as what name says.... as finisher!!! So they finish off a target which also mean if done badly they will loose dps.

OK I can see what you are saying, but the other thing I am thinking about is this;

The WE is pretty damn good class, great opening burst damage that no one can deny. If we add more powerful finishers, then you are going to have a class that high high OPENING damage and now higher FINISHING damage too.
If we add better finishers, then I think it would only be fair to reduce the opening burst damage.

I understand your fear too but the openinga are the same. What change are

-Wh crits/overall dmg on torments/finisher and dmg on number of bullets proc done
-we crits/overall dmg on aw/finisher and dmg on number of kisses proc done.

Where wh can spam finishers( and so more bullets), where WE cant but do more crits, no finisher and less kiss overall

Wh spam more bullets while we dont but have higher crit.( So wh compensate less crit with bullets).
Wh use more finisher while we less but they should be a fair trade to loose crit boost if used.

Like balance 4 factors where the ending output is similar between the 2 class so it still balance out. Logic aside any solution will be test before get implement eh..

Summary:
Wh - more bullets proc than we kiss
Wh - more finisher use than we finisher
WE - more crits than wh overall
WE - stronger finisher than wh cuz used less often.

Why do u neglect kisses?

Fine.