Return of Reckoning

Pacso wrote:

Hastykrasty wrote:I believe that once fortress and cities will be in-game there will be more will to fight for each zone. To avoid possible "retreat" by the losing side (underdog) and to skip to city defence (better rewards there), if you add a low realm-wide debuff of -5% rr and exp gain for a day, of course if the defenders' capital got pillaged. It will "inspire" people to react and defend each palm or their beloved land, thus "instilling realmpride".

Or it will simply increase the salt factory... Salt for the Salt God!!!

Very bad idea. People will just simply roll their other chars, which are on the winning side, and for a day you wont find enemies on the other side. Which means, there will be another city siege - >more players roll on the winning side because of the debuff ->more city siege-> more xrealm roll->etc.

There are pro underdog punishing rules for rvr there in place at that point.

Well, while I agree that bl is fun, griefing in a pq isn't.

Most ppl who will do pq 22 stuff will farm a starter gear for rvr. (for some classes it may become bis)
I understand the desire for smaller scale pvp, but hitting probably undergeared players in the back while they are busy pveing and catching up on gears tate with others doesn't sound like fun, or good pvp, it just sounds like griefing.
Also they may have to repeat the pq a few dozen times while bl is just one or two attempts usually.

I played war on live on a non core pvp server, I remember it like yesterday that one guy on level 40 with good gear stalked me a few hours on my level 20 am in saphery. Very intense pvp. Lul.
I signed up for this griefing in char creation, here most players didn't, it's a core rule server and should be cool for everyone.

The difference here at the pqs is, that the players are probably 40/40 or something, still they won't be able to handle themselves since most goonsquads have perfect gear and rr6/7/8 on there mains and multiple toons.

Though, I also think there is no "pve" community, but players who want to farm gear so they don't get rekt in rvr totally.

I might be a bit blind here, but the only issues I see with ORvR is the zerging, and zerging is completely up to the playerbase

It doesn't matter if it's TUP or some other warbands, people will flock to the strongest force (be it in numbers or coordination) just to get even the smallest reward (1 renown point per kill is still more than 0)

One way to prevent it could be giving movement speed debuff when amassed in force (for example for every player above 36 in an area of 100feet the blob speed would be reduced by 1% to the max reduction of 30% - though it's just an idea, no hard math or anything behind that).
What it would give? It would spread the forces through the region, and if someone decides to blob they don't lose rewards or power, they are just slower to engage (for a force that is going to lay siege it would be ok, as their aim would be clear - keep, for a warband that wants to roam itwould make their work harder)
Then comes the kiting, what if warband of 24 kiters get a hand on 40 or more people blob? They can kite, but remember the range required to shoot is the same for both sides, the blob would need to be really bad to lose to kiting squad, worst case sceneario they would not get any kills, but their force should be enough to not die to such an opponent.
Even deploying ram would require more coordination here, as the ram carrier would be already slowed he would require a tank wall in front of him doing HtL to not dismount on the parrage from defenders.

Probably there are more things about that, but I'm not even sure if it's possible to apply it in game, it's just an idea I always liked and never seen it in an mmo game

Punishing the rewards isn't the way to go imo, just as people already said it would cause more xrealming.

PQs are PvE and leave it that way, there is enough salt in rvr, no need to bring it to the small portion of the game that is pve

Yesterday in TM was interesting.
Fine, Order rolls with 3 organized warbands together to kill TUP, okay, you had to make it sure we go down. But please, taking same deathball to :| single Destro pugwarbands, that's just massive overkill.
Response, one hour later Destro responds by forming an even larger deathball that is even bigger and more coordinated than previous Order deathball of 3-4 warbands working together, Destro now ends up with close to 5-6 warbands running in one pack to show Order how we can "one-up" them.

Pretty sure no one on either side massive enjoyed said megaherds moving back and forth as waves.

ragafury wrote:Well, while I agree that bl is fun, griefing in a pq isn't.

Most ppl who will do pq 22 stuff will farm a starter gear for rvr. (for some classes it may become bis)
I understand the desire for smaller scale pvp, but hitting probably undergeared players in the back while they are busy pveing and catching up on gears tate with others doesn't sound like fun, or good pvp, it just sounds like griefing.
Also they may have to repeat the pq a few dozen times while bl is just one or two attempts usually.

I played war on live on a non core pvp server, I remember it like yesterday that one guy on level 40 with good gear stalked me a few hours on my level 20 am in saphery. Very intense pvp. Lul.
I signed up for this griefing in char creation, here most players didn't, it's a core rule server and should be cool for everyone.

The difference here at the pqs is, that the players are probably 40/40 or something, still they won't be able to handle themselves since most goonsquads have perfect gear and rr6/7/8 on there mains and multiple toons.

Though, I also think there is no "pve" community, but players who want to farm gear so they don't get rekt in rvr totally.

There are 3 chapter 22 hard pq's (correct me if i'm wrong) for each pairings and you can swap anytime ( 20 silver ) if you think you're abused. Also you mentioned aswell but onslaught will be bis gear for most of the classes, not a few, maybe all. So, before the fortress/city gear, onslaught will be the new carrot. Why it's a bad idea to create new rvr/pvp zones to dilute zergy t4 ? Same like the first Beastlord release ( it was amazing ). If you're getting rekt by someone in a chapter 22 hard pq, swap to another zone or get help, group up and rekt them ? I see no problem there. Why people are so sensitive about getting outplayed, weird.

That's why i keep repeating myself, to get rid of the zerg, you need to create new war zones with carrots. It will be much better than the current state. If you fear about PVE DOOR, it happened all the time on live ( when people try to push capital ) , it's easy to fix. Make keep lords avaliable to damage minimum 24 players. Profit. You get rid off a heavy weight from dominant zone. Less lag, more quality fights ect.

The fight will come , sooner or later. (First days of Doomsday was a good step up aswell, shame there is no rewards for non dominant zones atm.)

Here what's gonna happen when OS gear is up; warbands of both sides will camp the pq's full force without any kind of threat. Not sure did you played the first days of ruin, there was a pq in DW with always 20+ players in it. It was lame, it was horrible and it was boring.

Aurandilaz wrote:Yesterday in TM was interesting.
Fine, Order rolls with 3 organized warbands together to kill TUP, okay, you had to make it sure we go down. But please, taking same deathball to :| single Destro pugwarbands, that's just massive overkill.
Response, one hour later Destro responds by forming an even larger deathball that is even bigger and more coordinated than previous Order deathball of 3-4 warbands working together, Destro now ends up with close to 5-6 warbands running in one pack to show Order how we can "one-up" them.

Pretty sure no one on either side massive enjoyed said megaherds moving back and forth as waves.

First of all, there wasn't 3 organized warband of order to kill tup. one proper 24 man of order is enough for that job. I strongly suggest don't get cocky in public that much.

Yesterday order reinforcements was look like :

ru alliance : 2 party alliance + 2 party pug [ 5 bw + 5 engie + 2 sl + 1 wh ] cntk + diogenes alliance : i think like 18-20 man , still not sure.

zerg : 2.5 party or so, that guy with fancy name was spamming for 3 man whole night.

and 2 pug warbands with shitty compositions ect ect.

about one our later destro showed them" how to" zerg "how to" one up thingie, the moment ru alliance logs off and ocara rises from ashes i'd say. after 11- 11:30 pm ru time, order have at least %20 aao whole night, the final aao was like %180 or so when destro taking the empty keep after everyone sleeps.

War is not fair, I have studied European military history since I was in my teens and NOBODY ever won a war by playing fair.

The Zerg works, therefore it is the preferred tactic and this also reflects real life, ironicly.

In any conflict you have a triangle of technology (in RoR represented by gear), skill/experience and numbers.

Im almost all cases, numbers will win over any one other factor. If the other side has superior gear and experience and is able ti create a narrow front, then they can be effective but invariably the superior numbers will win every time and with the least effort.

The Zerf will never go away because it is the most reliable way to win and most people want to win.

Pacso wrote:

Hastykrasty wrote:I believe that once fortress and cities will be in-game there will be more will to fight for each zone. To avoid possible "retreat" by the losing side (underdog) and to skip to city defence (better rewards there), if you add a low realm-wide debuff of -5% rr and exp gain for a day, of course if the defenders' capital got pillaged. It will "inspire" people to react and defend each palm or their beloved land, thus "instilling realmpride".

Or it will simply increase the salt factory... Salt for the Salt God!!!

Very bad idea. People will just simply roll their other chars, which are on the winning side, and for a day you wont find enemies on the other side. Which means, there will be another city siege - >more players roll on the winning side because of the debuff ->more city siege-> more xrealm roll->etc.

IMHO, you are ignoring some key factors here:
Bear in mind that we are talking about an enviroment where higher sets will be out, like warlord or even sov. And they will be hard to get.

1) People play their main first, Alts seconds. Only few people will be able to field decent alts with, lets say, at least invader with 60rr in such a way to be competitive. So, if there's a capital siege, you play first your main. That had been seen with the conq set release, where all the people loggedd their destro mains and stomped order, then they change/stop and the cycle changes. However, whilst conq was (and it still is) easy to achieve and to slot (only 45rr), Warlord and Sov aren't (70-80rr).

2)Capital sieges are instanced (at least they are the best version), so there's no need to switch side, if you have to farm gear/level you only need a good WB and, to do so, you need a decent char, so see point 1.

3)Factions lockouts will be probably implemented, in such a way that you can't x-realm so easilly during even fortress sieges or capitals. And since nobody has the cristal ball to forsee things, you have to stick with your realm 'till the very last.

4)Not only faction-wide debuffs could be implemented. If you create a system that, for example, it determines the winner/loser after a city siege, by counting the difference of instances won/lost and by which amount, you could tie buffs/debuffs to that or to certain thresholds. Or giving realm-wide tokens for unique (appearance) sets or trophies or whatever.

I believe that this will push people into cooperate a bit and not always seeking the path of less resistance if the rewards/consequences are appropriate (or feared) enough.
Naturally the figures must be appropiate.
Then there will be the problem with merged T2-T4 with capital sieges instances, but that's another topic.

Gotta say Nioan, despite you being a new player with 5 days of RoR experience on your account, you know a lot of yesterdays TM's warbands, tactics and who-is-whos.

and that video, I got all 3h+ on record too. Will see if I feel motivated to make video showing the highlights of the maxsized redblob we encountered yesterday.
Considering how pugs were sent to slaughter first, followed by CNTK hitting the flank, Rusblub pushing the centre and Zerg hanging in the back joining the fight when it was safe to join, I'd say there was somewhat coordinated effort on Orderside to defeat single Destruction warbands during first hour or so.

Aurandilaz wrote:Gotta say Nioan, despite you being a new player with 5 days of RoR experience on your account, you know a lot of yesterdays TM's warbands, tactics and who-is-whos.

and that video, I got all 3h+ on record too. Will see if I feel motivated to make video showing the highlights of the maxsized redblob we encountered yesterday.
Considering how pugs were sent to slaughter first, followed by CNTK hitting the flank, Rusblub pushing the centre and Zerg hanging in the back joining the fight when it was safe to join, I'd say there was somewhat coordinated effort on Orderside to defeat single Destruction warbands during first hour or so.

Let's not derail, don't be mad of getting zerged, everyone hates it.
Also, that's why this topic exist : )

Aurandilaz wrote:Yesterday in TM was interesting.
Fine, Order rolls with 3 organized warbands together to kill TUP, okay, you had to make it sure we go down. But please, taking same deathball to :| single Destro pugwarbands, that's just massive overkill.
Response, one hour later Destro responds by forming an even larger deathball that is even bigger and more coordinated than previous Order deathball of 3-4 warbands working together, Destro now ends up with close to 5-6 warbands running in one pack to show Order how we can "one-up" them.

Pretty sure no one on either side massive enjoyed said megaherds moving back and forth as waves.

I think you are thinking highly of yourself and tup if you really are delusional enough to say 3 organized warbands united to kill tup.Yesterday was one of those zergy days and noone united to beat Ocara or Tup.

It sounds really funny when you lack awarness about what your typing all the time and noone is bothering to message you :DTry not to victimize yourself that much