Return of Reckoning

No no no these threads are great. Destro remember how order have Dirty Tricks AND Leading Shots? Discuss.

wtt runaway for dirty tricks + pounce

I find it very disturbing that the majority of people replying to this have yet to actually refute my statement about shamans damage output being too high in T3, seems to be mostly similar comments about encouraging group play and T4 viability.

Again the point of this thread was to highlight that shamans damage output in T3 appears to be scaled too high, making them stronger within the realms of making sense and to be honest i would not take issue with this but the fact they have access to such a powerful set of tools, like ap drain and the best kiting tactic in the game, puts it way past unbalanced into the realm of being just silly.

It was my understanding the dev's want people to be more active in these zones, encouraging players to debolster but if i find it to be unrealistic if certain classes are allowed to power creep way beyond what they should in these respective tiers.

Shaman dmg = AM dmg
shaman dmg is weaker than other rdps dmg in T3
and rdps dmg on average is weaker than mdps burst dmg

your main issues seems to be that those wretched goblins keep running around without honour dotting people up and kiting their innocent victims to death (just like AMs do)

if this game were balanced around 1v1, everyone would just play a dps healer or a WL

This is nothing new. AM and sham are very strong in small engagements in lower tiers. You're pretty much the king of 1v1, 1v2 (I think sham have it easier going into T4 simply because of Run Away), but for real... for real for real... balancing around 1v1 is silly. (And you keep saying that you aren't talking about 1v1 but every scenario you describe only comes about through 1v1 engagements... if you don't have a healer and the other person/team is/does, you're going to have a bad time.) That's pretty much how it's always been.

This game is not about 1v1, a few people have repeatedly made this statement, despite me already stating that i acknowledge this, message received, can we move on from this and address the scaling of shamans damage output in T3.

This is basic stuff guys, if you have access to range dps abilities but also have healing and tools like ap drain at your disposal, the scaling of damage should be toned down to reflect this, not hyper beefed up, why does one class get to have it all while every other class has to live by the old mmo rules.

I think it's getting to the point i'm going to have to level a shaman and start posting some evidence that they are actually outshining the majority of other dps classes out there in T3.

dansari wrote:No no no these threads are great. Destro remember how order have Dirty Tricks AND Leading Shots? Discuss.

LS, DT, WPs something, DoK procs, Sorc/WL king of pugplay-ishness, morales, IB buff goodness, AM/SH/SHA soloroam dominance (partially covered, gj), SW fester-trololol, (...), ready? Go!

Now seriously, two solutions that are brought up since live days whenever someone gets farmed by SHA/AM and continues the *bwah-bwah, I cannot mow down every class in 1vXs*-schtick:

1.) Group up.
2.) Pick your fights correctly, - its obligatory, don't mind it: - scrub.

On RoR there might be a third:

3.) Check your debolstered stats.

And a fourth:

4.) Comat log/emeny parsing or gfto. (Unless you see solo SHA/AMs farm entire wbs with Sorc/BW-esque timestamp ecomonies or something factually broken/fishy, you do not have a point worth discussing.)

xanderous wrote:

Spoiler:

I find it very disturbing that the majority of people replying to this have yet to actually refute my statement about shamans damage output being too high in T3, seems to be mostly similar comments about encouraging group play and T4 viability.

Again the point of this thread was to highlight that shamans damage output in T3 appears to be scaled too high, making them stronger within the realms of making sense and to be honest i would not take issue with this but the fact they have access to such a powerful set of tools, like ap drain and the best kiting tactic in the game, puts it way past unbalanced into the realm of being just silly.

It was my understanding the dev's want people to be more active in these zones, encouraging players to debolster but if i find it to be unrealistic if certain classes are allowed to power creep way beyond what they should in these respective tiers.

It is disturbing that you make no efforts whatsoever to prove your point, but rather choose to continue repeating your empty elaborations - you still dodge the questions indirectly posed to you throughout the thread:

What format are we looking at (scenarios, solo/Xroam, warbands,...)
~ what composition do you run, what classes do you frequently run with; whats fancied atm in midtier (mdps,rdps,...)?
~ why do you so miserably fail to capitalize on dps SHA while in a 6v6 setting; why do you miserably fail to shut the dps SHA down (BW dots, rkds,.... *cough*) otherwise?
~ if you soloroam, why are you sooo incredible arrogant as to think you could take on a decent (or even medicore for that matter) kiting class on a melee, or SHA/AM regardless of your class?

Why do you not provide logs (or any evidence whatsoever)?

The following questions don't really matter as most is covered in the above, but for the lols:

What class do you play exactly, the ones in your signatrure?
~ are you playing debolstered?
~ mdps, rdps, healer or tank (loldps/SnB - why don't you have a shield in your bags at all times to swap to for HtL if the former is the case?)

What timeslot do you play in, if grouping is no option?

Lastly:

Why did you make this thread realm specific?
~ why did you not inform youself about the potency of dps AMs?
~ why did you think this would turn out any diffrently?

Abbd.: Why do I and others have to point out all of this if you are so sure of your expertise and righteous assessment; why does your OP not contain any workable information if you are determinant otherwise?


TLDR: No arguments have been made that'd have be refuted, as there was no evidence posted to back anything up or to base a discussion on.

E: Swapped some stuff around for readability - words and stuff, too.

xanderous wrote:

Spoiler:

I find it very disturbing that the majority of people replying to this have yet to actually refute my statement about shamans damage output being too high in T3, seems to be mostly similar comments about encouraging group play and T4 viability.

Again the point of this thread was to highlight that shamans damage output in T3 appears to be scaled too high, making them stronger within the realms of making sense and to be honest i would not take issue with this but the fact they have access to such a powerful set of tools, like ap drain and the best kiting tactic in the game, puts it way past unbalanced into the realm of being just silly.

It was my understanding the dev's want people to be more active in these zones, encouraging players to debolster but if i find it to be unrealistic if certain classes are allowed to power creep way beyond what they should in these respective tiers.

Too many questions to address them all but here goes.....

4.) Comat log/emeny parsing or gfto. (Unless you see solo SHA/AMs farm entire wbs with Sorc/BW-esque timestamp ecomonies or something factually broken/fishy, you do not have a point worth discussing.)

Why does a single class have to farm entire warbands just for my point to be addressed about their damage scaling being too high, is that really a reasonable argument?

It is disturbing that you make no efforts whatsoever to prove your point, but rather choose to continue repeating your empty elaborations - you still dodge the questions indirectly posed to you throughout the thread:

It has become quite common knowledge from both sides that dps AM/SH are the best roaming class in T3, you only have to read this thread as an example of this, this post is just a suggestion thread, i'll produce evidence in a different thread in the future, it is just a case of finding the time.

What environment are we looking it (scenarios, solo/Xroam, warbands,...)
~ what composition do run, what classes do frequently run with; whats fancied atm in midtier (mdps,rdps,...)?

Already stated this but ok, location T3 rvr lake, also asking what composition do i run, verses one player. overkill much?
I have so far in T3 played verses a dps shaman, WL, Knight, SW, Engineer, WP, Slayer, IB, the other classes i have seen being bested such as WH, BW have mainly observed their total annihilation.

~ why do you so miserably fail to capitalize on dps SHA while in a 6v6 setting; why do you miserably fail to shut the dps SHA down (BW dots, rkds,.... *cough*) otherwise?

This isn't about 6v6, please stay on topic, anyone can beat anything in a good 6v6.

~ if you soloroam, why are you sooo incredible arrogant as to think you could take on a decent (or even medicore for that matter) kiting class on a melee, or SHA/AM regardless of your class?

You assume i am actively going out of my way to look for fights with dps healers when it is the opposite, they are the ones doing the looking, i'm just a pedestrian caught in their headlights.

Why did you make this thread realm specific?

If AM's are guilty of the same crimes shamans are i'm all for having them looked at, i did address this already.

LS, DT, WPs something, DoK procs, Sorc/WL king of pugplay-ishness, morales, IB buff goodness, AM/SH/SHA soloroam dominance (partially covered, gj), SW fester-trololol, (...), ready? Go!

You forgot "wounds debuff, armor debuff, AND heal debuff?!" for marauders and "double spirit debuff all across the sky!" for SM. Oh, and who can forget the age-old question of "isn't this crappy AoE HoT that Engi's get like, actually really OP or something?" We could also throw in "waaah mah morale pump tactics are actually really bad and no one should take them ever, pls gib buffs" for destro and "waaah ranged kds aren't that good, rdps are fine, pls remove cc immunities" for order

4 pages of discussion for a silly suggestion. Sad.

Also, no.