Return of Reckoning

Bozzax wrote:There simply is no use for an ability that is channeled reflect dd on hit.

It just cant kill anything Simply dont hit the choppa/sl and he/she turns irrelevant.

Suggestion:
Change to a channel aoe dd with Increasing damage like Bleed em out so last swing hits rly hard while first merly tickles

Ok but in what situation would you ever find such an ability useful?

I watch people play all the time and ive never seen you or any other choppa ever use this ablity

And this suggestion would just result in people getting nuked or straight up dying becuase they had the "misfortune" of attacking a choppa/slayer when they were furious and on the last few seconds of the channel

Too much guesswork and inconsistency

I still think it should be a pesudo tantrum that only works when you get hit

No I'n not suggesting a hit back of any kind I'm suggesting replace it with a normal dd channel. To spice it up make damage increase on tics.

An ability that your enemy can fully negate by clearing enemy target will never have much use

Bozzax wrote:There simply is no use for an ability that is channeled reflect dd on hit.

It just cant kill anything Simply dont hit the choppa/sl and he/she turns irrelevant.

Suggestion:
Change to a channel aoe dd with Increasing damage like Bleed em out so last swing hits rly hard while first merly tickles

The purpose of such ability is not to kill something and not even to deal damage, it is to force enemies to stop attacking you, or pay the price in blood
It is solely "defensive" ability even without any defensive stats

Channeled aoe damage - Choppa already has that and for Slayer it could turn out too strong when used together with ID
And again that is total rework of ability's functionality - before we even had a chance to try the vanilla one

Besides - our AoE damage output is already pretty good, what you suggest is a buff to that which isn't needed.

TenTonHammer wrote:I still think it should be a pesudo tantrum that only works when you get hit

What is a "pseudo tantrum"

A roaming tool useable against kiting rdps, I don't see why it'd need a rework. The ICD keeps it in check, you don't want a Repel/Riposte (Abbd.: in terms of dmg via enemy AA/rapid fire stuff) equivalent (with indefinte range/trigger) as baseline.
You't don't want to use a channel on a mdps outside of roaming either, as it kills - the OP acknowledgded it - your AA, which in turn kills your dps (note: CHO/SL deal in sustained damage ~)... so it'd be a combination of bandaid and ducttape, if you were to change the current iteration. If you were to change it to a stackbased ability like DD/T you wouldn't win anything outside of roaming or bombing, with the latter being only relevant whilst bringing CHO/SL in bulk...

TLDR: Its not worth the time it'd require to code and balance it, imho.

E:Words and stuff.

Grock wrote: What is a "pseudo tantrum"

Tantrum is the Choppa M2 that gives +300 bonus damage on ability hits for for a certain number of attacks


I feel this ability should be reworked into a self buff that for X number of attacks made on the slayer/choppa it would deal Y amount of damage back to the attacker

Darosh wrote:A roaming tool useable against kiting rdps, I don't see why it'd need a rework.

Only terribad rdps players have ever died to this ability and its far more effective to try and close in on them with RD/root breaker + charge


as a solo choppa you will get destroyed by rdps unless you close in on them fast anyway and in a grp with guard and heal its not as big an issue and you dont really need it about would have far greater dps out put by using lotsa choppin and yer all bleedin now


Plus with all the rKD's or order its easy to interrupt the channel

TenTonHammer wrote:

Darosh wrote:A roaming tool useable against kiting rdps, I don't see why it'd need a rework.

Only terribad rdps players have ever died to this ability and its far more effective to try and close in on them with RD/root breaker + charge

Yes, and good rdps you will never catch - so what? It's a nice ability for niche uses, at times it can secure kills in close matchups, so bleh.

Abbd.: Note that is in soloroam and pugplay - moreso, you aren't supposed to channel it for its entire duration, rather use it as semi-instant. Even then, no order rdps will blow rkds for the sole purpose of shutting down R/BIO ~
Abbd.: As to solo CHO/SL, the main reason you evaporate is the lackluster ragedump... you eat damage regardless, no rdps with a brain will use its CD bound dots on you whilst not in red - outside of red and in the progress of rampup you don't have access to the utility you need in roaming. So you might wanna argue in favor of a rework of combat formulas/career mechanic implementation, rather than an ability that will not - even in reworked form - see any use in proper play (= groupplay of any scale), if you want to up roaming potential.

E: Words and stuff.

Grock wrote: The purpose of such ability is not to kill something and not even to deal damage, it is to force enemies to stop attacking you, or pay the price in blood
It is solely "defensive" ability even without any defensive ..

It is? You take 10 hits and 3000 damage inc and return one hit with low tt on a random target

Even if ICD is changed as op ot is usless

TenTonHammer wrote:

Darosh wrote:A roaming tool useable against kiting rdps, I don't see why it'd need a rework.

Only terribad rdps players have ever died to this ability and its far more effective to try and close in on them with RD/root breaker + charge

Are you guys talking about Retrubution/Bring it On?
Because Retribution doesn't work against ranged attacks.
I tried it a few times and just to double-check i just logged in and tested it with engineer in duel - 0 hits over 10 seconds

Bozzax wrote:

Grock wrote: The purpose of such ability is not to kill something and not even to deal damage, it is to force enemies to stop attacking you, or pay the price in blood
It is solely "defensive" ability even without any defensive ..

It is? You take 10 hits and 3000 damage inc and return one hit with low tt

What is this "example"? The way it works right now? Didn't we come here to discuss it precisely because it has no use in current iteration?

If changes proposed by OP and me were made then what you described will turn into like 10 incoming hits with 15-20 outgoing hits, depending on amount of your parry/disrupt/dodge.

Bozzax wrote:Even if ICD is changed as op ot is usless

Which is why i propose number of additional changes.....

Grock wrote:

TenTonHammer wrote:

Darosh wrote:A roaming tool useable against kiting rdps, I don't see why it'd need a rework.

Only terribad rdps players have ever died to this ability and its far more effective to try and close in on them with RD/root breaker + charge

Are you guys talking about Retrubution/Bring it On?
Because Retribution doesn't work against ranged attacks.
I tried it a few times and just to double-check i just logged in and tested it with engineer in duel - 0 hits over 10 seconds

It should work on all direct damage abilities, iirc - I haven't roamed in t4 RoR yet in a manner that'd cover it, as I am no maschoist, hence it doesn't see any use from me...its just not worth the gcd outside of roaming, even then bleh. But if it doesn't work on all direct damage abilities yet ~ that might be an appropriate change for it.

Abbd.: Gonna test it properly myself once I get home, just to be certain ~