Return of Reckoning

Karast wrote:
#1 the AM morale pump is ****. As is Solar Flare. It is not debatable unless you got some new proof to provide. It has been tested and retested and no one serious runs it, no one. Name an order warband using it? Every time you all get called out on it and the fact that it doesn't work at all you just ignore it and claim it does a few weeks later.Where is the order warband running 14 A ... stripping? Where is an order warband that can get ... right now.

If you really think it works and can make it work prove it. How many times are you going to claim this type of crap but never back it up because you like the current morale pump status quo. If you like the current status quo that's fine. But don't spout theory-crafting junk as a viable meta build, when you haven't done any leg work testing it at all.

Haojin wrote: 1- Did i say anything about an optimized order warband should run with 14 AM's ? [ Btw i still don't get it why 14 AM but nvm, i already ran a Greenskin warband with 8 Shamans and it's perfectly fine, fyi. ]

2- As i said before it's your own fault to can't optimize your group with that setups. Please stop your " NO ONE USING IT, PROOVE IT " spam because there are some groups running with it and they are effective. So, cut your bullshit. Get better players. Change your setup for current type of threat. Be flexable.

3-If you insist to play with shity compositions you can't deal with destro morale bomb. Btw order morale bombing is much much better than destro, fyi. [ Check the youtube videos of Red Guard, VII, Black Company ect ]

4-Btw i have a sleeping order warband for the future. I already ran a order warband around September-October 2016, so we already tested and saw the stuff. We know the strong and weak sides of the order warbands.

1. If you want I can hunt down the post with the 14AM comment. And 8 Shamans is not the same as 8 AM using the 2s heal for the pump. I know this looks good on paper but it doesn't work in a warband setting.

2. Please provide examples of groups using it. It is too much to ask that when you say many people use it, to then actually give some examples. I will shut up and never post about this topic again if you can actually provide proof of concept in a warband setting while fighting in the lakes.

3. I was in those WB's on live. This is not live. Things work differently here. The morale pumps were no where near as effective and most videos from live are from when those guilds had full sov and the sov morale strips. It was a different game, and a different time.

4. Yes you jumped sides. Do you have videos of you using this magic AM morale pump from back then? We are suppose to trust your divine knowledge of order warband comp and tactics because you played around for 1-2 in last year before jumping back to destro. I have a magus and BG on destro side. Does that make me a master of destro WB comp?

In Kings Own in t3 we ran AM morale pump nearly all the time when there was another competeive WB in the lake.

It's not that great in instant fights, but if you get a strong position you can hold and extend the fight for a long time you can build multiple people to m4 pretty quickly.

I haven't played AM or even in a WB since the truely great and amazing t3 keep bug which bled into t4 and no guilds really returned

Again These order destru balance ****?..... When ppl understand that order destru is Well balanced at The Moment

This much anecdotal evidence and damage control from destro side defending their broken moral dump, lmao. I guess some things never change on this forum.

Karast wrote:
1. If you want I can hunt down the post with the 14AM comment. And 8 Shamans is not the same as 8 AM using the 2s heal for the pump. I know this looks good on paper but it doesn't work in a warband setting.

2. Please provide examples of groups using it. It is too much to ask that when you say many people use it, to then actually give some examples. I will shut up and never post about this topic again if you can actually provide proof of concept in a warband setting while fighting in the lakes.

3. I was in those WB's on live. This is not live. Things work differently here. The morale pumps were no where near as effective and most videos from live are from when those guilds had full sov and the sov morale strips. It was a different game, and a different time.

4. Yes you jumped sides. Do you have videos of you using this magic AM morale pump from back then? We are suppose to trust your divine knowledge of order warband comp and tactics because you played around for 1-2 in last year before jumping back to destro. I have a magus and BG on destro side. Does that make me a master of destro WB comp?

1- You can hunt whatever you want, i didn't say anything about 14 AM's is the most optimized warband setup for order.

2- I didn't say MANY people using it, you can just experince it on the fields time to time if an opponent spec for it. The proof ? If you hit by No Escape/Solar Flare/Ruin and Destruction/Rune of Skewering more faster than before, a normal people got a descent intelligence can understand they pumped by an AM. Is this effective when you get hit by it ? Absolutely.

"Example" in 6 v 6. 3-I'm talking about compositions and according that video from your guild, your composition is completely trash and really not look like a proper order warband, not even close.
4- We played order like 1-2 months and tested/experinced stuff and thats it. Your whinings about " PROVE IT, SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE "**** experienced by us.

PS: You look like a real compo master according your guild video, really enjoyed it

It blows my mind that people still continue to argue on the effectiveness of countering a passive with an active, its like being that kid who hates it when his mommy buys another kid a candy bar when he regularly gets it for free.
In regards to the original purpose of this thread i have noticed weaponskill to be less effectiveness when it comes to dealing damage, on both my IB and engineer, can't produce numbers because i failed maths.

Haojin wrote:
2- I didn't say MANY people using it, you can just experince it on the fields time to time if an opponent spec for it. The proof ? If you hit by No Escape/Solar Flare/Ruin and Destruction/Rune of Skewering more faster than before, a normal people got a descent intelligence can understand they pumped by an AM. Is this effective when you get hit by it ? Absolutely.

"Example" in 6 v 6.

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

Just gonna point out that that example is heavily outdated as AM morale pump is one of the few which isn't bugged and is abiding by aza's morale pump rules which were implemented somewhere around new year ? ( meaning that it doesn't work/is relevan't for smallscale - its only about 70 morale instead of 250 like in that video) , AM pump only reaches full potential with 72 enemies around you and scales down heavily with less.

Ok i believe the formula for ws is WS*2.858/level = armor penetration.

Tougness i believe is the first hit calculation which reduce the damage prior to other mitigations. Such as absorb/armor.

Haojun please refer to this bug. Your video is outdated. Destruction mostly arent effected by the morale changes.

https://github.com/WarEmu/WarBugs/issues/9484