Return of Reckoning

On a more productive front, it helps me feel connected to the game if I know that, at least at some point, the kinds of things I want to see in the game will eventually be worked on. I was ready to uninstall after the news about WP ab.ex not coming back as a result of class balance shutting down. The BG patch gives me a bit of hope that it will eventually return.

Something as simple as a running dev wish/to do list would do a lot to maintain interest in the game. Doesn't have to have any kind of deadlines or indications of a specific order in which they'll be worked on, just something showing what's in the future of the game.

All Im going to add to this conversation is that I feel th3gatekeeper was sort of on point.

If you yourself writes code and people cant seem to at least be decent human beings to you on the forum it leads to either backlash from the dev in question will will grow worse and worse as time moves on, lack of lust for the project in the long term which may grow into leaving or drive you off the forum / not engage with the community at all and become isolated.

There is a reason you rarely see a established game developer be active on the games forum but instead rely on other people to filter said information for you.

It may be easy for someone to say they dont care what others say to you but a normal human will after a while grind his/her sanity down if it continues. There is a reason why one of the rules here is to treat staff with utmost respect, sadly its not followed as good as it should.

Stmichael1989 wrote:Forgive me everyone, I knew not what I started.

Now you know why we can't have nice things.

Stmichael1989 wrote: Something as simple as a running dev wish/to do list would do a lot to maintain interest in the game. Doesn't have to have any kind of deadlines or indications of a specific order in which they'll be worked on, just something showing what's in the future of the game.

Again, that kind of thing just leads to arguments over theory. "Why does he want THAT in game?! How could he think THAT is something worth working on?!"

If anyone feels the need to pass on information outside the patch notes, that's awesome. I know that everytime something like that is released, everyone talks about it for quite awhile, and it is referenced eternally there-after. If they don't want too, then don't. Go Code some more, or play the game, or be with their family, or y'know, actually get some Paid Work done...

I wont be complainin' as long as the servers are running.

Dabbart wrote: If anyone feels the need to pass on information outside the patch notes, that's awesome. I know that everytime something like that is released, everyone talks about it for quite awhile, and it is referenced eternally there-after. If they don't want too, then don't. Go Code some more, or play the game, or be with their family, or y'know, actually get some Paid Work done...

I wont be complainin' as long as the servers are running.

There is also the thing about dropping something that we were working on, that happens as well

Natherul wrote:All Im going to add to this conversation is that I feel th3gatekeeper was sort of on point.

If you yourself writes code and people cant seem to at least be decent human beings to you on the forum it leads to either backlash from the dev in question will will grow worse and worse as time moves on, lack of lust for the project in the long term which may grow into leaving or drive you off the forum / not engage with the community at all and become isolated.

There is a reason you rarely see a established game developer be active on the games forum but instead rely on other people to filter said information for you.

It may be easy for someone to say they dont care what others say to you but a normal human will after a while grind his/her sanity down if it continues. There is a reason why one of the rules here is to treat staff with utmost respect, sadly its not followed as good as it should.

Natherul wrote:There is a reason why one of the rules here is to treat staff with utmost respect, sadly its not followed as good as it should.

It inhibits direct/honest communication, that's why it's not followed as good as it should be.

It also get's in the way of being able to respect the staff, i mean... respect as a rule?

You're lucky Natherul, you rose up from the ranks and y'still have the same "Can i haz?" sheen as the rest of us, everyone still likes you!

You and Ryan... and Dana...

AND THAT'S IT.

I hope to god this is one of those, "so sarcastic you appear stupid" moments.... Cause... That's pretty dumb.

Edit: Fixed

Dabbart wrote:I hope to god this is one of those, "so sarcastic you appear stupid" moments.... Cause... That's pretty dumb.

Unadorned brutal (adult) honesty isn't for everyone.

Clearly.


You've gotta start taking what i write at face value, sarcasm isn't really what i go for or want.

If more people read what i wrote at face value i wouldn't have to repeat myself so much or get into nearly as many arguements.


I will now withdraw from this particular debate permanently.

Dresden wrote:

wargrimnir wrote:

Dresden wrote:
Dream on, the staff/player interaction will never be good, there isn't enough incentive on either side to improve it, sorry there just isn't, the staff have limited resources/funds and are beholden to nothing and no one and the players will always have fundamental disagreements with the choices the staff make.

End of story.

Think they're gonna denerf scenario kill points? nope? neither did all the people that left last summer.

#FaithAndPatience

I'm 98% certain the vast majority of the people who left last summer did so over the massive DDOS we suffered that took the game server, and frequently the website, down for weeks at a time. We weren't stable again until late in September. If scenario kill points are what did us in, we have a whole lot less wiggle room than I thought.

I doubt it was just about Scs but you know that social media topic i gather links for? well i don't put everything i find in there.

I too see/hear many things regarding RoR and the chatter regarding this server/forum (ie Scs) is absolutely monstrous in some places.

It's the ONE thing i could never shut up about until Azarael finally crushed my will to genuinely care, remember?

It radically altered the entire dynamic of the game.

The essential point i am making is that RoR these days reminds more people than not that Age of Reckoning is TRUELY dead.

I sympathize with this. The DEV team has communicated that SCs are a "minigame" and RVR is the "real game". Unfortunately, for many people, SCs were the "real game" and RVR was more a "minigame". Alas, I am not in charge though, nor would I want to be because I dont have the time each week to deal with this game, aside from play it 1-2 hours 3-4x a week.

I also sympathize with the request to know more about the game and the goals of the DEV team. However I can see how more communication and honesty from the DEVs would actually be counter productive.
1) it takes away from time spent discussing/developing.
2) it creates backlash (most of the time) from the player base not seeing what they wanted or what they thought are priorities.
3) People start expecting the changes to go through, when they might be scrapped and create even more "fallout".

Maybe once client control comes in, we can see more Dev Diary postings about "goals", less specific and more broadly "here is what we would like to do".

On a side note, I really do wish there was some discussion around "who" ROR is trying to appeal to and if this is supposed to stay a "niche" game or if its supposed to stand on its own 2 feet as a game. ROR (to me) has a bit of an identity crisis going on atm where they are trying to do BOTH, when you really cant...

If you merely make it the "niche" game for people to re-live LIVE days... People will get bored quickly and play less and you will require more and more "gear/power creep" to keep people playing. This is what I see happening more and more right now. However this doesn't reflect the current leveling dilemma, where it seems like they are trying to make it a full fledged game.

When I first started playing ROR, it was MORE a "niche" game than it is now, which I liked. You could level very quickly to the top tier via just accepting all the PVP quests from each tier and turn them in each and every SC win. You also got a ton of gold to support buying gear,talis etc. The fact it was so "friendly" and "casual" was what turned me on to playing.

Now leveling (while not hard) is more tedious, but then at end game, it falls back to this "niche" game where SCs are seen as a mini game and in RVR you compete with your own warbands for contribution and rather than fight, its sometimes better just to flip BOs and let them take a zone so you can have a chance to roll at special RVR-only loot. People are forced into a "no so pleasant" leveling experience but then also forced to play PVP end game the way the DEVs want, not necessarily what they want. So its almost like the worst of both worlds.

(Note: I am not writing this to be hyper critical, more trying to state here is where I see the game. I am VERY grateful we even have ROR in the first place, so this comes from a place of sincere humility and encouragement, not berating the DEVs).

If the game is trying to stand on its own 2 feet, there are some outdated mechanics I see (like Guard) that are such a key central piece of AOR that have been continued to ROR to make it a very unpleasant "casual" game. So the game is being catered to the "hard core only" audience in that its EXTREMELY solo player unfriendly. Which is what causes many players to leave.

If someone gets on with 30 minutes or an hour to play, ROR is not a good game for them.. Unless you have a very active guild and play during those peak times only. I personally think the 2 areas that could improve ROR for EVERY PLAYER (casual or hardcore) are reworking 2 key areas.

1) Guard - how it functions, how its used, make it more "PUG" friendly while retain its skill ceiling in premade groups. (I have posted ideas on this in the past) This is key because it spills over into every other piece of the game. You get a solo MDPS who hates the game because he requires guard, but if he logs and doesnt have a dedicated guard/heals he cant do much. You get healers who are sick of healing because the MDPS (who dont have guard) are too sqishy and die, so they turn DPS and you get tanks that are sick of guarding bad MDPS, and guard just isnt a FUN mechanic IMO which causes Tanks to want to roll DPS.

- A reworked guard would encourage tanks to use it, MDPS to get it and healers to heal which creates a HUGE difference in the ROR experience for all players.

2) RVR - This is limited to people who have 2+ hours to log in and play. It also doesnt properly "reward" players IMO. Parties in warbands compete amongst each other for contribution. You play the "contribution" game rather than fighting the enemy. Part of this is due to the bag system. The other part is due to the zone locks providing rewards. Overall what this needs is a "finite" period of time in which the zone ends, so players can reliably get on and know it WILL end. You also need to encourage defense. I have some ideas for this, but its not fully fleshed out and wont waste time posting them here. But would love to share some thoughts with DEVs if they want to hear.


Overall, as I said, ROR has an identity crisis ATM, and if the game ever wants to stand on its own 2 feet, there are a few things that should be reconsidered. I am thankful we have ROR and will continue to play as long as its fun but likely ROR for me will always be a game I pick up for a few months, then put down and come back later to pick back up. I would LOVE for it to be my "full time" game all the time, but currently, its not in a state where it can be that. I would LOVE for it to be a game I can refer all my NA friends to (and create an NA population) however given how unfriendly it is to casual players, whenever I do this, players have a bad taste in their mouths and what I have pinpointed that to, are two key areas - Guard and RVR.

Thanks for reading this wall of text!

Honestly, while the current T4 campaign is flawed, it was also extremely flawed on live (another thing on the long list of reasons why WAR died)
back then it made sense to simply allow enemy to lock zone after zone every 40-60 mins, so you would get city fights fights every 5-8 hours, to maximize renown gain. Only during primetimes, when it got too zergy to get keeps locked fast or zones became zergfests, did the city grinding slow a bit. I remember days when there were as many as 5 Altdorfs, all having mostly empty instances where people would run from one point to the next getting lot of renown from doing RealmVersusEnvironment.

The current Conq contribution grind is killing the motivation to play for me, but I have hopes the situation will ease in a few months. Thank god for no lock timers so I can switch alts all the time according to mood. Heck, I've even resorted to doing quests as the T4 orvr situation sucks all the passion I have left in RoR.
That being said, T1 and Midtier RvR still feels pretty good.

What is inherently hard about utilising guard? Swap it to whoever needs it, stay within range, ???, profit.
While it can be clunky to use, the mechanic itself functions very well, and any issues with it (such as those you mention) simply stem from either a l2p problem, or stubbornness (probably more the latter) .The instances you raise (dps with no guard, etc,) are rectified very simply by making a group.

If people are dissuaded from using guard because they deem it hard/impractical, I dread to fathom how they'll cope with things like morale abilities, tactics, punts, kds, etc.