Return of Reckoning

wargrimnir wrote:Constructive posts would be helpful.

Pretty sure we all know what the problem is. We all know that x3 XP has been presented as a "fix", although it really doesn't address the problem.

Get creative. It's not like x3 XP is the only thing we're capable of.

Quests for officer medallions for kills in the t2-3 lakes, for t4 players to incentivize bolstering. Possibly make it a daily/weekly quest

PQ sets for t2/3 with unique cosmetic appearances (possibly a debolster for pve as well to add some kind of challenge for t4 players here)

Weekly RvR events in the t2/3 lakes with cosmetic rewards and like 2x RR to incentivize debolstering or playing t2/3 alts

quests for doing all the lairs/pq's with cosmetic rewards or something

and of course instances whenever it's possible to implement them.

Debolster is not for the casual player, it is for the people who have high RR character and are bored. Make Debolster more casual friendly IMO.

1.) Get rid of the cost for respeccing (last time I did it I had to pay 5+ gold)

2.)Allow t4 players to enter in their Current gear.
a.)The gear just takes the stat of the highest medallion gear/emblem gear available in tier
b.)Talisman +stats would be blocked

3.) Allow players who are 40/40 a chance 1% to start with, when they get a bag to receive something they would in T4. Loot equivalent to bag color.

I believe if 3 is implemented it would for a time until client control is implemented a chance to let players on a faction in T4 that have 200% AAO a place where they can enjoy RVR without getting rolled by the opposing faction. (looking at you Order)

Creative.. Well the only thing I can think of is..

How about better gear scaling?

How about a T2/T3 type of Ruin Gear to farm that will take you comfortably through those tiers and provide a good set as you enter T4? Maybe people would hang around T2/T3 and farm some type of Ruin-Like quality set and in the process queue up for SC's and such?

Ive come back to have some warhammer fun after finding out about this server, and im 99% sure ill blow my brains out if I have to pve my way through t2/t3 and these awful quests bc there is NO pvp out here as a level 15. (1 scen in 6 hours so far today that ended early and zero people out in orvr) And now that I heard I missed triple xp makes it that much more awful and unmotivating to want to grind. How can you make t2/t3 an enjoyable experience if there are 20 people out there max? Bring back the x3 xp so i can catch up to where the action is and enjoy PVP

Natherul wrote:the issue with even implementing a command to get the xp boost back is that you lessen the "worth" of the content in t2/t3.

And implementing a command will probably end with it being pretty much mandatory I imagine as then it will be deserted of people once more (a few using the command would push more and more to use it)

While what you guys said is true, I don't see any real fix for this since those areas are meant to be temporary, and a very slow and stale boring temporary since there is no population at all to interact with.

T2 and T3 oRvR zones are the exact same thing as T4, there is nothing different or unique to them to attract debolster (aside from the 1% crit belt from emp T3 - maybe).

Kobra wrote:Many of us have seen the T2/T3 content, ad nauseam, from live and don't want to revisit it again. I'm here to fight. The best fights are T1 Fest, and T4 SC/RVR.. Even in live T2/T3 wasn't where it was at. I don't expect that to change here anytime soon unless the population skyrockets.

This also holds true since I guess 90% of our player base played this game on live and already know how worthless those tiers are, unless from learning how oRvR and PvP in general works, but since we had live as a training ground, everyone wants to skip this and go for the real deal as soon as possible.

wargrimnir wrote:Get creative. It's not like x3 XP is the only thing we're capable of.

There is no "getting creative" in this. Unless you plan to somehow completely re-do the original game in order to make T2/T3 meaningful, and even then it'll be impossible, because the very purpose of those tiers are to be temporary until you get enough exp to t4.

My suggestion would be give back the exp boost for oRvR, and more importantly, give a lot of exp for doing pqs, so at least new players will "see the content" of the PvE area. Perhaps add an additional quest in which you get extra bonus exp if you complete the easy pqs or something like it. Right now nobody does pqs for exp or any quest related to them unless they don't know how badly rewarding they are. So might as well make leveling be fast through them and have new players check it out and enjoy it. Pqs are not a bad design (GW2 copied them) but right now they're useless because PvE gear & money are worthless pretty much.

Perhaps add a new quest that also gives you huge loads of exp if you do some tome unlocks or map completion (opening the whole map) so if anything the guy will level running around checking all the non-used content we have in form of the PvE areas.

And for the argument of having low rr players in T4 and being "noobs" is completely null and everybody knows this. People that are rr60+ still get farmed as if they were rr30, they take perhaps 1 or 2 gcds more to die - it all depends if you play in a group or not, and how well you play in a group. My groups often have people below rr40 and even below level 40 and nobody above rr60 and we do just fine against everything.

Bring back the 3x! I personally haven't seen it be very active lately, with the exception of a few very small warbands, could just be my play times though.

As for people blowing through levels and not knowing their class, it's easily remedied by asking or looking through these forums for guides.

Thing about written feedback is, that mostly only the unsatisfied people will crawl out of the woodwork to state their issues while the content side simply nods in approval. To be crude for a second, listening to the whiney flood of posts that frequently happen on here is a "**** if you do, **** if you don't" scenario. Can't blame the devs being dissatisfied with flip floppy data like that, but it should not disencourage you guys. Data harvested here is, like on any platform, in no way representative for the whole playerbase. You can tell it's mostly the same people talking, with randoms sprinkled in here and there. Most people simply won't bother to participate on a forum. Maybe having an easy to use ingame feedback sheet pop up after every big patch, where people simply can mark answers/write a small comment like on other big project beta releases could offer better quality data overall? Easy access is a key point for many. People that simply don't want to give feedback won't even if you put it right in front of them, but it'll most definately help to tap into a bigger pool.

Regarding T1/2/3 RvR:
Getting rid of T1 only because it is not representative for T4 gameplay is backwards imo. It's perfectly functional as an introduction
to Warhammer RvR and Nordland is a shining example why accessibility is important. Why do Dwarf/Elf T1 fall flat in comparison? Because their layout is awful. Nordland has all BOs on the same map (after they got rid of the one in Norsca. Veterans remember) and the warcamps are so close to each other that there is constant action. Some vocal people may dislike zergy fights, but there is very little overall complaint about T1 being a bad experience. It's reasonably fast and easy to get into.

So, why are T2/3 being considered "bad"? Most likely because they're empty AND so damn slow, first point being a direct product of the latter. There were times when T2/T3 was the cap where attacking/defending heavily contested keeps granted several levels of renown. Change in lesser rewards for enemies that got hit by many targets was great for T4 RvR to avoid premades to farm pugs for hours on end for easy rewards, but it hurt the lower tiers severely. Low RR gain with low numbers results in people not even trying. I tried actively playing my Kotbs but when I finally made the jump to T4, played for 2-3 hours and gained several RRs in one night I did wonder why I even bothered staying at all.

The eternal curse of those two tiers is that they are simply a bridge. Bringing other means such as grind/quest XP on the same slow
level as RvR will only stab the gaping flesh wound. If the goal is to revive ORvR/SCs in those tiers, the best way is to make it the most desirable way to play/level up. People will always try to play the most efficient, so if that means to PL out of boring content, they will just do that. Crippling all means will simply make people discontinue their journey. The point that making ORvR more accessible and fast will "give out free stuff" is moot imo when people actively have to fight for it. That's not dumbing it down, that's refining a subpar system. End goal should be getting people into T4, so lower tiers being fun and fast should not be a concern. Having a RvR event every blue moon will also only provide a band aid and not solve the glaring core flaws. Grindy MMO
design is a thing of the past for subscription MMOs to glue people to the screen as long as possible. People already deal with them
being 10-20RR levels down for the first weeks in T4, because that state can easily be recuperated by playing in the tier that has
more action going anyway.

Maybe capping a faster RR/INF gain to max rank during T2/3 would solve it being bound to abuse. Faster rate up till rr30 might be the sweet spot imo. People landing with rr30 in T4 have access to all vendor jewelry greens that are decent enough, decent enough points to spend and with Ruin/Epic Weapons they are more than capable to compete. You can try to keep T2/T3 alive by many measures, but the nature of those two zones and the game's design will always make people pass through them, as it should be. Just my two cents though.

Sorry for the wall, but I had to get if off my chest.

For a long time I was advocate of "fixing" t2-t3 but I don't think that can actually be done at all.

T4 is a place where your character abiliteis are unlocked, where game is full.

I really doubt T2-T3 can be "fixed" by people debolstering into it frequently - because why would you even want to willingly restrict your character on frequent basis? So people will only come if they are bored or want t3 belt.

Imho stop looking at debolser as a way that will fix t2-t3 population. It will NOT.


IMHO T2-T3 will stay as those odd zones that have only occasional high activity and are usually dead / small populated. XP decrease will not fix it. If anything it can stop people from making alts and/or some ppl from levelling it's first character too.

T4 is where game is for most players as in all themepark MMORPGs, where end game is "the game" and levelling is at best occasionally fun or/and most important only for miniority. Time to accept that imho.

This is turning into a whine thread, and those kinds of threads get closed because we're well aware what issues exist.

Is that how this ends?

Someone remember the free level 20 from DAOC?? and the burst of action in thidranki (and caledonia) when that happens?

Maybe something like that could help to bring more action to T2/T3, but will kill for sure T1...so, what if allow only 1-2 chararters per account/faction get a free level 15-20 (not sure what level would be better)....not sure if for new accounts (new players) is a good idea or not, maybe this option need to be unlocked reaching some level....so can prevent a massive account creation to get always that free levels since u can get a limited toons at that level....