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Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

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blaqwar
Posts: 471

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#31 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:11 pm

Can I get clarification on something, do Divine Fury and Murderous Intent directly affect the lifetap value of Devour Essence? That seems to be the case (haven't tested), which means WP get a bit of an advantage there as Sigmar's Shield healing should be unaffected?

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Raelag
Posts: 14

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#32 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:16 pm

General

Divine Fury, Fanaticism and Murderous Intent will also reduce the healing output of lifesteal skills.

Тhink again, you change all the good in class. All this nerf DPS., You compensated lose of all surviveability by 25% DoK and 40%WP damage increas as DPS ? It nothing .

Ther is no class mechanics now . Ok its fine , Well, give the opportunity to be real DPS
DPS dokk does not have anything to get closer to the target and stay on target . no anti-control!
So give us a normal DPS tactics such as + 50%(or at least 25%) crit damage as well as all dps have. and tactics to gane strength no willpower. let us have Aniti control ability.

Dok dps is not fine
1 no aoe detaunt (yes we have tactic but no we now losse all healling ) we need free detaunt as all dps (cuz we are Now pure dps )
PS: My wh newer die in knock with no guard , and DoK die

We have a lot in our guild DPS dok largely lost faith.
But I still believe that despite all the nerf. you make DoK competitiveness DPS

Sorry for my English translation done through Google

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Glorian
Posts: 5004

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#33 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:26 pm

Concerning the M2 Nerf from an Order perspective:

For Long Dot Dealers like Engi nothing changes. Dok have single Cleans and M2 Cleans. So My 21 sec Acid grenade wich Deals damage every 3secs will Most likely do two times damage.

If a Dok is attacked by an WL he Can still use st cleanse in himself. Can't use his M2.

Most difference is the above mentioned classes, foremost do WL Can Hit Destros in a warband and most likely see that his Dot runs through. Damage of IB, Kotbs is from a dps perspective rather minimal.

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Stmichael1989
Posts: 184

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#34 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:29 pm

The combination of half damage across the board plus reducing SR/TE to 350% seems to completely negate the reward that should balance out the risk of being in melee to heal. The first iteration was a little silly to be frank, as even a full scenario focus firing me had a tough time taking me down. That needed toning down. The second iteration, with it scaling at 550% of unmitigated damage reduced by guard/challenge/detaunt/absorb shields, was a happy medium. It packed enough healing throughput that I could keep myself and my group alive through a good amount of damage, but I was still dead to a coordinated effort involving a knockdown and 2 good DPS focus firing me. As I should be. The damage output was also never all that significant. Since I chose to forego DF to make the most of willpower HoTs, my damage never exceeded a quarter of my healing, and more often than not was about an eighth. Now the rest of it is being cut in half.

With this particular proposed round of changes, being a focused melee healer will provide neither superior healing nor meaningful damage as compared to being a dedicated backline healer while also sacrificing positioning and exposing yourself to focus fire and putting yourself in range of enemy RDPS. By definition, this is excessive and makes dedicated melee healing strictly inferior.
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Gachimuchi
Posts: 525

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#35 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:32 pm

rip DoK m2

may it never be slotted again
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Bozzax
Posts: 2635

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#36 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:37 pm

Spoiler:
Az seriously with all respect I think you should reconsider this .ab ex maybe pull it back and fine tune it.

maybe you should review who is playertesting these changes as well. How this could go live is a mystery to me.

The "eggs you are breaking" are my friends that stopped playing. I didn't help that all feedback that wasn't wanted was ignored or responded with stuff like read patchnotes/char selection description.
Clean up your posts and show a little respect to those you are consistently taking shots at. Final warning.

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Jinxypie
Posts: 328

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#37 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:41 pm

Stmichael1989 wrote:The combination of half damage across the board plus reducing SR/TE to 350% seems to completely negate the reward that should balance out the risk of being in melee to heal. The first iteration was a little silly to be frank, as even a full scenario focus firing me had a tough time taking me down. That needed toning down. The second iteration, with it scaling at 550% of unmitigated damage reduced by guard/challenge/detaunt/absorb shields, was a happy medium. It packed enough healing throughput that I could keep myself and my group alive through a good amount of damage, but I was still dead to a coordinated effort involving a knockdown and 2 good DPS focus firing me. As I should be. The damage output was also never all that significant. Since I chose to forego DF to make the most of willpower HoTs, my damage never exceeded a quarter of my healing, and more often than not was about an eighth. Now the rest of it is being cut in half.

With this particular proposed round of changes, being a focused melee healer will provide neither superior healing nor meaningful damage as compared to being a dedicated backline healer while also sacrificing positioning and exposing yourself to focus fire and putting yourself in range of enemy RDPS. By definition, this is excessive and makes dedicated melee healing strictly inferior.
Yeah the second iteration felt best, hopefully that TE/SR heal and detaunt cd will get reverted as well. As a healer you should be able to function w/o guard unless you are heavily focused, otherwise regular healer get always prioritized over melee one.
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zumos2
Posts: 441

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#38 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:50 pm

Azarael wrote:So, once again, I'm hitting two camps:

Camp 1 - Stance Switchers, who want to change stances between MDPS and melee heal (which wasn't my intent and breaks the design by allowing DPS to switch with heal at will)

Camp 2 - Pures, who want the isolation of MDPS and melee heal to resolve the above, rather than nerfs to each mode to make the switching viable

At the moment I'm leaning strongly towards Camp 2 as I'm getting pushback from Celerity/Righteousness players who think that having DF, F and MI affect lifetaps is killing that spec.
Im all for making the dps spec pure dps, but I would like to add camp 3 which would be switching between backline heal and melee heal. Any ways of making it harder to swap between grace/sacrifice and backline heal would hurt that obviously. Im mentioning this to consider it when locking out pure dps and grace/sacrifice.

Also the M2 DoK morale change is exactly what I had in mind as well :D
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sanii
Posts: 193

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#39 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:52 pm

Raelag wrote:General

Divine Fury, Fanaticism and Murderous Intent will also reduce the healing output of lifesteal skills.

Тhink again, you change all the good in class. All this nerf DPS., You compensated lose of all surviveability by 25% DoK and 40%WP damage increas as DPS ? It nothing .

Ther is no class mechanics now . Ok its fine , Well, give the opportunity to be real DPS
DPS dokk does not have anything to get closer to the target and stay on target . no anti-control!
So give us a normal DPS tactics such as + 50%(or at least 25%) crit damage as well as all dps have. and tactics to gane strength no willpower. let us have Aniti control ability.

Dok dps is not fine
1 no aoe detaunt (yes we have tactic but no we now losse all healling ) we need free detaunt as all dps (cuz we are Now pure dps )
PS: My wh newer die in knock with no guard , and DoK die

We have a lot in our guild DPS dok largely lost faith.
But I still believe that despite all the nerf. you make DoK competitiveness DPS

Sorry for my English translation done through Google

Unless you aren't familiar with numbers divine fury (sustain damage wise ) is equivalent to having a 50% crit dmg tactic with about 67% crit chance on target , if you had a strength tactic it would be eclipsed by any the following : Attack speed tactic, 10%crit 10% parry , healdebuff , potent coventants or celerity damage tactic. You have the tech option of chosing aoe detaunt if you so desire with a 100% uptime (something other mdps can not do ).The one thing that holds true is the fact that the base dmg of dok abilities is lower then other mdps , which gets offset by a wide array of other tools and in particular celerity that you have access to. And i assume this is the reason why abilties in torture/wrath have been respectively buffed.

While these changes might impact the usage of melee heal dok more so then dps dok , it will in no way ( at least for me) make melee dps dok less useful then it already was for dealing damage in a premade. Celerity is still gonna be a very potent dmg boost for your entire group , consistency of your healdebuff is still there. The thing impacted the most was your ability as a dps dok to also be a potent offhealer (this impact i can't judge immediately as i need more time on my dok after the chages ) .
Last edited by sanii on Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zumos2
Posts: 441

Re: Changelog 18/11/16 (2)

Post#40 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:54 pm

Bozzax wrote:Az seriously with all respect I think you should reconsider this .ab ex maybe pull it back and fine tune it.

maybe you should review who is playertesting these changes as well. How this could go live is a mystery to me.

The "eggs you are breaking" are my friends that stopped playing. I didn't help that all feedback that wasn't wanted was ignored or responded with stuff like read patchnotes/char selection description.
And how do you expect them to fine tune it without extensive testing? Honestly stupid comment this is. When you play on an alpha server you should be open to test new stuff. You can not agree with changes but you should then explain in a rational manner why not. And when discussing changes it kinda helps when you play with then before you give feedback ...
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