Return of Reckoning

Bozzax wrote:The problem with this other tanks does 1/4 pf the damage a sm dish out. If a sm can change to a def enchantment when needed that gives same mitigation as others only to pop back as healers catch up you have created the 2xSm meta.

Other tanks choose to output sm-damage when needed they are stuck reducing damage

Sorry but that statement is just not true and should not be advocated as a fact.
I see other tank classes dishing out the same/more damage and getting killingblows if specced for it every day. The reason you see more 2h SMs than snb is;
1.They look cool with the 2h.
2.Other tank classes outperform them utility wise on a group basis when def specced.

The main issue with PB is group utility, it does do it's job during pve tanking well enough, so I'd agree with those interested in adding another effect to it.
I could imagine (group) AP and Healing while the bubble is up - both somewhat scaling with mastery points(not level) as a useful utility even if that would mimic a part of the knight's auras.

As an example:
Has a 25% chance to absorb up to {level+mastery(don't recall the exact scaling here)} damage over 5 seconds. On activation and while active groupmembers within 100 feet regain {mastery/5+1} AP and {level+mastery(5% of the absorb maybe?)} HP every second.

This would keep the tanking properties and add in a few defensive or neutral benefits to make it useful when in a group. The numbers are kept low on purpose to make sure the changes do not make this enchantment overpowered right away.

What about adding 5/10 ap to group per proc
Or a 5seconds 10ap per sec group buff?
SM have some ap issues.
This buff would work in pve, solo and group play
Its hardly noticable but some nice icing on the cake

The issue with adding a healing component to PB is making Bolstering Enchantments and Blessings of Heaven (healing related tactics in Hoeth tree) more useless, rendering them completely obsolete.

I still think that some kind of morale pump/drain which Order lacks a lot compared to Destro is the best option - but then, there could be balancing issue in T1-3, escpecially in T1 (PB is the first blade enchantment you get).

Bozzax wrote:

Spoiler:

I have problem with this
A sm does 100k+ or more damage in CW mostly ST while being hard to kill
A kotbs does 20k and reduce group damge
A soft 2h IB somwhere in the middle and buff one guy

I don't think they should be improved in any way until either damages goes up on ib/kotbs or sm is brought down.

Being able to swap for group migration with one gcd just like other tanks while having dps as a mdps isn't balanced.

This is becoming comedy especially as sms have long punt on proposal as well.

Having a viable spec/playstlye does not mean underperforming skills/tactics won't be changed - Penril.

Beefing PB makes every sm spec/playstyle better, as every order premade has a 2h sm this change makes the order meta stronger.

Using NB for example you can set this as a 100% automated action, when ini buff is up swap, giving "PBs improved defences" with insignifficant dps drop.

Shouldn't balancing changes avoid making current meta classes/cookie cutter even stronger? (more unbalanced)

You can already do the same with a Khaine/Hoeth spec, waiting for a HB proc and then swapping to NB (or the other way around) for max Spirit/Initiative debuff. A PB buff would make it so going HB/PB or NB/PB would be just as viable, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

Also, for NB/PB to be good, you need to be Khaine/Vaul spec, meaning no WW (which is way better for a group). And if you go Vaul/Hoeth, your stat steal will be meh, and you won't have ED/GWM.

PB in its current form is completely useless except for soloing/1v1. I don't see any problem with changing it so it is actually beneficial for a group.

PB in its current form is completely useless except for soloing/1v1.

Agreed

I still don't think you should buff SM core abilities

Also, for NB/PB to be good, you need to be Khaine/Vaul spec

You get 66,7% out of current PB without a single point in the tree.

Example
Equally I would not recommend beefing lets say Slayer - Giantslayer by increasing RG damage.

Ugle wrote:

Bozzax wrote:The problem with this other tanks does 1/4 pf the damage a sm dish out. If a sm can change to a def enchantment when needed that gives same mitigation as others only to pop back as healers catch up you have created the 2xSm meta.

Other tanks choose to output sm-damage when needed they are stuck reducing damage

Sorry but that statement is just not true and should not be advocated as a fact.
I see other tank classes dishing out the same/more damage and getting killingblows if specced for it every day. The reason you see more 2h SMs than snb is;
1.They look cool with the 2h.
2.Other tank classes outperform them utility wise on a group basis when def specced.

BO's look better with 2h then snb ,yet 80% T4 BOs use snb.
Almost every BO uses "Da Biggest" ,exactly mirrored with SM " Natures Blade".

Only group utility advantage BO snb over SM snb is "Youz see me block dat" .
Highly unlikely that's the only reason the majority of BOs use snb.

Its eagles flight and spirit damage is why there's so many darn 2h SMs and also why they deal more damage then other tanks.

1- PB becoming morale drain would unduly promote double SM to seriously counter chosen and BO = bad idea. Even in WB play, enough SMs could prevent any kind of morale push.

2- PB becoming an AP thing would not help much. As gear will progress most classes will become AP sufficient.

3- PB becoming group bubble. As per Aza, you would need a massive bubble to be worthwhile. 1 of 2 things would happen : 1- with a low value it would only be decent against fluff AoE like magus, 2- if the value was strong enough to be worthwhile in FF situation, it would become retardedly OP vs AoE.

4- Wounds debuff : redundancy with Nature's Blade : it would steal a stat, just a different one. Its a decent idea though. Better than the others imo.

Proposition : If possible, tied to the use of a shield, AoE snare on proc for 5s. This would slowly start to break the absolute necessity of having a knight, especially if a superpunt is added in Vaul. (I know, I know, it would free a tactic slot for a knight as 2nd tank, but having 2 SnB tanks would have the drawback of losing lots of damage, at least in 6v6. Not sure about WB implications). This way, the traditional SnB knight/2H SM (or 2H IB) pair could be somewhat replaced by a SnB SM / 2H IB (or 2H knight).

Eathisword

1. Agree
2. Agree
3.PB absorbing fluff aoe damage would be fair ,why should a group absorb do anymore then that?
4. If changes to SM and BO are going to be more similar, then BO needs corporal damage and resistance debuff in the path of deboss.
5. What does shield have to do with group PB? SM get Super punt.... serious?
Give every tank a super punt ,aoe snare .