Return of Reckoning

Arbich wrote:

Akalukz wrote:but if you are ganking and 100 of your friends are sitting at the keep. Then yeah, you might have a problem.

So what is the most a side can have without having issues if they controll all the BO 72?

as I understand it´s 36. up to 36 you have no debuff, but when facing only one enemy with 37 people in the zone you are far above your 200% supply level.

This is a big change and it discriminates large scale battles.

You failed to understand.

If you face one enemy with 37 people in the zone, you are checked against the minimum supply of 36 and not the enemy supply of 1.

sqrt(37 / 36) = 1% additional incoming damage.

Frenzik wrote:This is the worst idea ever. Bomb wbs that deal MORE damage and take LESS damage for underdogs?? Its gonna be impossible or atleast take 10 hours to lock a zone. Not to mention small scale pvp suffers. Good luck roaming on a witch hunter or squig herder or w/e with a debuff on you. Or be terribly op if youre buffed. Thats not fun either. Cant wait for this to be changed back.

Please, change it back!

Clueless knee-jerker who is unable to read the original post. But I guess I can't expect more from a person renowned for binding Ravage to all keys.

For everyone complaining about solo roaming: You are the last people I think about when dealing with RvR.

It's not a 1v1 game and I will not put your considerations over that of the groups and warbands. Ever.

Bearing in mind that a realm is only heavily penalized when zerging heavily in mass battles and I'm forced to assume that most of the solo roam complaints are from people who didn't read the damn post beyond "omfg incoming damage and outdoing damage nerfs!!!!!!!! muh roam!"

I usually always back the devs and the implementations they make but im not impressed at all by this change, time will tell and as we are all testers give it some time to see how it works out.

Thelen wrote:This seems amazing for WH/WE that want to chase the AAO. The damage boost will let the absolutely murder anyone they get a jump on.

Which brings about more class imbalance, i certainly wont be roaming solo anymore if the other realm has aao in fear of being insta gibbed.

Arbich wrote:

Akalukz wrote:but if you are ganking and 100 of your friends are sitting at the keep. Then yeah, you might have a problem.

So what is the most a side can have without having issues if they controll all the BO 72?

as I understand it´s 36. up to 36 you have no debuff, but when facing only one enemy with 37 people in the zone you are far above your 200% supply level.

This is a big change and it discriminates large scale battles.

If there's 1 Destro and 37 Order in a zone, that debuff is only going to grant the Destro player an extra 1.3% bonus damage and resistance.

The system does nothing to hurt large-scale battles generally, it does something to hurt large-scale and largely-lopsided battles.

Large, even battles? You're fine if you hold at least 1 BO.
Small, even battles? Also fine, even if you have 0 BOs.

Small, unbalanced fights? The effect isn't that great. If there's a 1 warband of Order controlling all 4 BOs, and 2 warbands of Destro with 0 BOs, the bonus damage and mitigation is only 15%, and that's a worst-case scenario.

Large, unbalanced fights? Let's say 1 warband Order vs 4 warbands Destro. Destro has 0 BOs, so this is another worst-case scenario. sqrt(96 / Max(36, 12)) = 63%. This is pretty big, but there's also 96 Destro players fighting 24 Order. Even if Destro had all 4 BOs in this case, the bonus to Order only decreases to 41%.

With the numbers being what they are, a faction is allowed to outnumber their enemies by up to 2:1 ratio so long as there are at least 18 of their enemy, and the larger faction has 4 BOs.

What needs to be determined and tested by the community in the coming weeks, is whether one realm should be allowed to freely outnumber the enemy by as much as a 4:1 ratio. When we have no way to lock players to one faction, and no penalty to switching factions, then without a penalty the incentive is always, largely, to switch to the winning team. We have seen this over and over and over.

It's perfectly possible and reasonable to determine that a penalty for massively outnumbering your opponent needs to be there, but the numbers as they currently are are too great.

Frenzik wrote:I dont need to do that to know what this change means. You already wrote it.
I dont need to be die to even more unkillable archmages for a week to know it will happen...
or killed in 2 seconds by roaming witchhunters.
etc.

Edit: Then again. Ravage 150% damage .... maybe i will

See, now your thinking the way a couple of groups I know will be thinking ;p

Test and prove it, Aza will make changes to help everyone out but needs time and proper feedback, not people freaking out because of change.

Guys.

How are we supposed to test it before releasing it?

So like everytime, we have to deploy the patch, let you test it for some time, take conclusions and refine if needed.

Yeah... sorry, my mistake. I thought from the example (60vs50) that it count for all players, when above the 36player limit and not only for the ones above the 36player limit.

I should avoid math at all.
And reading... the formula explains it...

Still curious of the affect on a keep-def when attackers almost wipe the defenders, but better test this.

What this means:

The Objectives are the Objective:
BOs are hella important when the odds aren't even. The faction with the number advantage needs to control all their BOs inorder to keep their troops supplied (no debuff). the underdog will want to take these BOs so they can reap the benefits of the debuff.

If you live like zerglings, you die like zerglings:
Outnumbering greater than 2-1 has deminishing returns. Numbers are fine, but you are more likely to die because your realm has overcommitted to one zone. This compliments a future campaign where multiple zones are important rather than zerging one zone down at a time.

Large scale is large:
This debuff will have no effect if the greater opposition is 36 players or less. You want to take a keep with 37 players, but if there is one guy on oil, be ready to get 1% more hurt. but guess what you have 37 players to figure out how you are going to fry him and get on with attacking that empty keep.

Does this damage modifier also apply to damage that is usually not effected by any other modifier (Morale)?

I think this could lead to more warband bomb-blob play, and frustration for those groups over players who are not playing in warbands bringing the zone numbers up. I think this will result in something totally opposite of realm pride, not that anyone really cares about realm pride, but still.

Imagine your group fighting another group on even terms somewhere in the lake and the other side flips a BO, and there's nothing you could have done about it.

Still willing to give it a shot, but it's a bit crazy.

Congrats on your new game. Because this is no longer warhammer online.

Of course, its your server, you have no responsibility to design the game as it was on live. Hope it works out for you and those that like changes like this. But again, this is no longer the same game. Might as well put in 3 factions while youre at it.