Changelog 08/08/2016

[Gripp]

Very interesting 10/10

[bloodi]

If the losers end up getting a bunch of kills that means it was a close SC.
The SC scores will probably be close as well so in the end, both sides end up getting similar rewards. Losers who are spawn-camped never get a bunch of kills. They might get a couple.

No it doesnt mean that at all, it just means that some guys who are pugging are getting killed while the premade group carries them, which is what happens in most scs. You try to split them and get something out of it. Namely some loot and an emblem, currently doint this doesnt get you to even 100 and the kills reward nothing but some rr.

The only problem I can see with this system are single-objective SCs like Caledor Woods, Temple of Isha, etc. where whoever captures the flag first (assuming it is a really close fight where no one wipes) will win, probably 500-100 (or less). This would be a really close fight where the loser will not even reach the 100 points threshold (and therefore receive close to zero rewards).

And worse, a lot of the scs tend to end in 200 to 120, because no one can get the objective and no one gets rewarded in the end and you just spent 15 minutes.

Overall the change is not bad for people who mostly win, ie premades and everyone else will get less rewards than they did on the former one.

[footpatrol2]

Awesome you guys added those other SC's. Super stoked on that. Will be great to see them again.

[Azarael]

What I'm getting out of this is that you see the following vulnerability:

If Team 1 is stronger than Team 2, Team 1 is incentivized to farm Team 2 for renown until full time to bank renown which will then be paid out at the end.

So in other words, killing as the primary objective rearing its head again.

There are three solutions to that:

1) Remove kill gains altogether from these SCs
2) Limit the number of kills that will provide renown by using the points mechanic
3) Limit the number of kills that will provide renown by comparing the winning team's kill count to that of the enemy team

It needs to be set up such that a team that is dominating should want to finish the scenario as quickly as they can.

-----------------

Then you've got the second set of problems - the cheesy overwhelming victory issue in which a close fight has dramatically imbalanced rewards, and the low scoring issue, in which balanced teams on certain maps have real difficulty in scoring.

Only one solution I can think of. Any kind of win gives full reward, and the loser's reward is the highest of:

- Score/EnemyScore * Reward
- FMin(Kills made/Enemy kills made, 0.5) * Reward
- 0.33 * Reward

[Akalukz]

Only one solution I can think of. Any kind of win gives full reward, and the loser's reward is the highest of:

- Score/EnemyScore * Reward
- FMin(Kills made/Enemy kills made, 0.5) * Reward
- 0.33 * Reward



.................

It's almost a catch 22, because when you reward the losing side regardless of anything, that just promotes scenario afking, similar to what happened on live when scneario weapons first came out.

I trust you guys to figure out what works best, just keep in mind that solo / duo / small group players make up a large portion of the player base.

[Azarael]

Another factor to use would be the time taken for the enemy team to win the scenario compared to the average completion time of that SC. Folding too easily would result in vastly reduced loss rewards.

[Londo]

I think in the end the only way to fix spawn camping is by adjusting sc mechanics. Domination scenario has all the ingredients for weaker team being spammed camped.

[kweedko]

Done you new sc mechs Stonetroll Crossing - runing with troll pacifier 13 mins in a row to get 500 and win untill order farming destro on resp and what i got - 200 rr(less than 1 kill in rvr) that not even funny, untill sc got you some descent reward like 1k rr for every 100 points noone gonna do sc for wins and do the sc mecanics.

As for me i liked sc on old WAR cause it was fun and rewarding. And only problem i saw on WAR sc was resp farming, and my solution for this - make a barier on resp in every sc, team starts behind it in safe zone and on a reswave timer forced pushed through barrier to join the fight.

This not fix the problem with premades vs pug roflstomping but speed up the loose 100% sc by feeding the points to wining team, this also fixing the problem with afkers cause they gonna die(need a forcefull res on every res wave to stop them laying dead and afk), this change force peeps to fight and not to slack. Nobody want to sit 15 mins, nobody deserve this time waste especialy without reward. You go to sc you get a strong opponent git gud or die trying.

[Akalukz]

I think you could come up with some behind the scenes criteria for rewarding folks, that doesn't necessarily need to be 100% transparent to the players.

for instance, for those "close" matches, If combined score = 750+ , then winner gets full reward and loser get 33%. If low scoring but high kills could be something like if losing team has 50% of winning teams total kills (5 for loser and 10 for winners) then 50% reward to winning team / 15% to losing team.

Could put in a leader board type thing, since you are now tracking scenario time to finish, fastest win / name of folks on forum board. Fastest win & most kills.... closest battle etc.

[Azarael]

I think that scaling the rewards for a win by the completion time factor I previously outlined and making any kind of win a full win for the purpose of rewards on all of the SC maps would be a place to start, at least. For objective maps, putting in some kind of guard for kill farming when you possess an overwhelming advantage and working out a decent system for loser rewards should handle the rest.