Siege weapons

[RyanMakara]

I am going to cry when there are no more large scale battles of three to four WB on one side and three to four wb on the other side, smashing them down the lake to their keep and then taking that away from them too.

From a personal perspective, the keep siege at DW last night was fun, seeing 3-4 WBs going at each other constantly, up to the point where Destruction split off to take KV as an organised warband kept luring Order outside to get farmed.

I am sorry, I am a fan of WARHAMMER a mmo about war. You want to turn it into small scale multiple skirmishes, and grudgingly I admit your system would work to do just that. There are though some problems you have not thought of.

If we wanted small scale skirmishes only, we'd simply remove the warband option and force everyone to form six man groups. This game's about war indeed, but given the lore itself has artillery, why not use it against the growing problem of massing zergs?

1- The average player joins a guild for the perks of banners, horses and just friends to have fun with. NOT to form highly trained/competitive small groups that will work together with other guilds/alliances to effectively fight small separate skirmishes that can beat an enemy back to their keep.

Not every guild needs to be of a highly capable, coordinated caliber. But playing with just your guild, not even being a part of an alliance, makes your battlefield presence a lot less severe. In my opinion, it is thus much more beneficial to fight a smaller scale enemy that's being split up by artillery.

2- The average player will sit on the sidelines or back on live, do SC's till the WB's reached the enemy keep. (when SC's were worth doing for medallions and emblems, a high rr reward and in the real old days INF as well)
Then, they would ride down, join one of the pug wb's, take keep, leave wb, and go on to next zone.

Then we'll destroy the ability to leech. Introduce a proper contribution mechanic that persists beyond log-out, for every aspect that contributes to a zone lock.

3. The average player is not interested in tactics, guild groups, or anything like that.

In war, there are always those who lead, and those who are led. Why should this be any different from a game centered around war? Simply because our current system does not support it, doesn't mean we don't plan on making it so.

All of your changes, while actually pretty good, are not changes that take the average player into consideration. So, why should the average player invest more time into this game that you are working so hard to resurrect and I am thankful to play?

"Development first, player experience second."

[RyanMakara]

Siege weapons are way to OP against keep takes! 600 damage unmitigated every second is extreme and puts way to much burden on healers to heal teammates . That's not counting in the damage of oil ,champions and player opposition !
Even if there are some successful keep takes the opposing team defense will get as much renown and influence for losing the keep.....so why take a keep ,just defend? That is what RVR is turning into!
Scale down siege weapon damage to 300 that would balance RVR a lot!

What else are healers supposed to do at a keep siege? Pick their noses and trim their nails? Currently they focus more on bringing AoE siege if the force is substantial enough to outheal all this 'massive damage'.

An AoE cannon takes 4 seconds to reload. You currently have a maximum of 5, and the wind factored into each shot also makes the bombing effectiveness less coherent. It's not difficult to outheal 600 damage per second either, granted you have at least one healer. The amount of AoE cannons available at a siege will be reduced in the next patch.

RvR actually has defended keeps now? And it grants as much reward as attacking one? **** win, in my opinion! Hated the T2 and T3 days of farming empty keeps over and over again for zero gains, aside from a lousy renown and influence tick. You are arguing a non-issue by saying we have to half the cannon damage; if a handful of people can defend the keep against a warband, the siege is proving its effectiveness, as it should have.

[7rere7]

Siege weapons are way to OP against keep takes! 600 damage unmitigated every second is extreme and puts way to much burden on healers to heal teammates . That's not counting in the damage of oil ,champions and player opposition !
Even if there are some successful keep takes the opposing team defense will get as much renown and influence for losing the keep.....so why take a keep ,just defend? That is what RVR is turning into!
Scale down siege weapon damage to 300 that would balance RVR a lot!

What else are healers supposed to do at a keep siege? Pick their noses and trim their nails? Currently they focus more on bringing AoE siege if the force is substantial enough to outheal all this 'massive damage'.

An AoE cannon takes 4 seconds to reload. You currently have a maximum of 5, and the wind factored into each shot also makes the bombing effectiveness less coherent. It's not difficult to outheal 600 damage per second either, granted you have at least one healer. The amount of AoE cannons available at a siege will be reduced in the next patch.

RvR actually has defended keeps now? And it grants as much reward as attacking one? **** win, in my opinion! Hated the T2 and T3 days of farming empty keeps over and over again for zero gains, aside from a lousy renown and influence tick. You are arguing a non-issue by saying we have to half the cannon damage; if a handful of people can defend the keep against a warband, the siege is proving its effectiveness, as it should have.

Hey when RVR is now focused mainly on wanting keep defense then its a sure sign that taking Keeps is to overwhelming!
Healers can heal through 600 dmg a second however as I mentioned in my previous post healers have to heal through player opposition ,oil and champion damage

Its not a win at all to defend keeps even if they loose it and still get as much xp and renown ! Makes the feeling of taking a zone less significant. The game becomes more on renown/influence then actual feel for the game!

Good less siege weapons next patch ,see if it makes a difference .

[Natherul]

Siege weapons are way to OP against keep takes! 600 damage unmitigated every second is extreme and puts way to much burden on healers to heal teammates . That's not counting in the damage of oil ,champions and player opposition !
Even if there are some successful keep takes the opposing team defense will get as much renown and influence for losing the keep.....so why take a keep ,just defend? That is what RVR is turning into!
Scale down siege weapon damage to 300 that would balance RVR a lot!

What else are healers supposed to do at a keep siege? Pick their noses and trim their nails? Currently they focus more on bringing AoE siege if the force is substantial enough to outheal all this 'massive damage'.

An AoE cannon takes 4 seconds to reload. You currently have a maximum of 5, and the wind factored into each shot also makes the bombing effectiveness less coherent. It's not difficult to outheal 600 damage per second either, granted you have at least one healer. The amount of AoE cannons available at a siege will be reduced in the next patch.

RvR actually has defended keeps now? And it grants as much reward as attacking one? **** win, in my opinion! Hated the T2 and T3 days of farming empty keeps over and over again for zero gains, aside from a lousy renown and influence tick. You are arguing a non-issue by saying we have to half the cannon damage; if a handful of people can defend the keep against a warband, the siege is proving its effectiveness, as it should have.

Hey when RVR is now focused mainly on wanting keep defense then its a sure sign that taking Keeps is to overwhelming!
Healers can heal through 600 dmg a second however as I mentioned in my previous post healers have to heal through player opposition ,oil and champion damage

Its not a win at all to defend keeps even if they loose it and still get as much xp and renown ! Makes the feeling of taking a zone less significant. The game becomes more on renown/influence then actual feel for the game!

Well atm as there is only a chance when outer door is down to get loot from a keep defence, I dont think its that many players who will just stand by and wait for a keep defense. Sure inf and rr gains are a thing but inf is not an infinite resource, it caps at a certain point and I believe gear trumps rr (especially since there is no gear that requires higher rr rank at this point). However this was a recent change and it will probably take some odd days before it settles in with all players.

But yeah it should be hard to take a keep, thats the point especially since its the current endgame.

But again thats only my take on it... A (still) newly appointed scrublord GM so take what I say with a grain of salt

[7rere7]

There's gear rewards for keep defenses too....I think its one gold bag? How many gold bags for a keep take....two maybe three? Good luck getting one of those when it takes bout two warbands to bring a average defense keep down!
How many medallions for a keep take ,"ONE" ? That's skimpy specially when taking a keep against average defense can take +40 minute's!

Healers have to constantly heal without blinking for +40 min, to extreme!

Sack a city ,get the spoil! Its not even close when comparing what keep defense get out of it!

[Natherul]

There's gear rewards for keep defenses too....I think its one gold bag? How many gold bags for a keep take....two maybe three? Good luck getting one of those when it takes bout two warbands to bring a average defense keep down!
How many medallions for a keep take ,"ONE" ? That's skimpy specially when taking a keep against average defense can take +40 minute's!

Healers have to constantly heal without blinking for +40 min, to extreme!

Sack a city ,get the spoil! Its not even close when comparing what keep defense get out of it!

please read what I posted again. There is now only a CHANCE of getting rewards from keep defense and it requires outer door to be down.

Also you speak of sacking cities, when (way in the future) city sieges are released your gonna have to destroy the keeps and fortresses to get there!

[analoghermit]

What else are healers supposed to do at a keep siege? Pick their noses and trim their nails? Currently they focus more on bringing AoE siege if the force is substantial enough to outheal all this 'massive damage'.

An AoE cannon takes 4 seconds to reload. You currently have a maximum of 5, and the wind factored into each shot also makes the bombing effectiveness less coherent. It's not difficult to outheal 600 damage per second either, granted you have at least one healer. The amount of AoE cannons available at a siege will be reduced in the next patch.

It does depend on the keep.
Some keeps have funnels (Order DW) and you have ramparts manned by dozens of Engis, BWs and SHs tunneling everyone that gets into range. Means most of the WB ends up clustered on the road, getting wailed by the siege non stop.

It does get a bit mindnumbing to spam *only* your AE heal for a prolonged time.

Just my 2cents, looking forward to whats coming up.

[bloodi]

That's precisely what I'm talking about, and it was a huge problem on mythic's servers.

And since you claim I make this argument every time rewards are mentioned, I guess you won't have trouble linking some examples. I'm waiting.

Sure, here is one viewtopic.php?f=15&t=13664&start=40#p155665

Here is two viewtopic.php?f=42&t=14046&hilit=freebi ... 30#p153693

And here is three viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12221&hilit=renown ... 30#p131776

With the one here it would be four, i guess its enough.

They may not be the exact quotes but the sentiment is the same, we start talking about the reward systems, you come in and start painting everyone as either entitled, wanting free stuff, not playing for fun or some other form of detrimental statment from your high horse, you dont use arguments, you just go in and mud the conversation accusing anyone who wants to discuss the matter of some weird thing like that.

When you reduce his whole argument to a sentiment of people wanting to leech locks, you are using a fallacy, his post was not about "hey lets bring back leeching" it was about how most players dont play this mmo or most mmos with the thought of it being work, is just something they play for a few hours, progress a little and come back later at some point. You reduced it to him wanting leeching back. Stop with that.

[peterthepan3]

I am going to cry when there are no more large scale battles of three to four WB on one side and three to four wb on the other side, smashing them down the lake to their keep and then taking that away from them too.

I am sorry, I am a fan of WARHAMMER a mmo about war. You want to turn it into small scale multiple skirmishes, and grudgingly I admit your system would work to do just that. There are though some problems you have not thought of.

1- The average player joins a guild for the perks of banners, horses and just friends to have fun with. NOT to form highly trained/competitive small groups that will work together with other guilds/alliances to effectively fight small separate skirmishes that can beat an enemy back to their keep.

2- The average player will sit on the sidelines or back on live, do SC's till the WB's reached the enemy keep. (when SC's were worth doing for medallions and emblems, a high rr reward and in the real old days INF as well)
Then, they would ride down, join one of the pug wb's, take keep, leave wb, and go on to next zone.

3. The average player is not interested in tactics, guild groups, or anything like that.

All of your changes, while actually pretty good, are not changes that take the average player into consideration. So, why should the average player invest more time into this game that you are working so hard to resurrect and I am thankful to play?

you need to make a distinction between average/casual players and competitive, and stop disregarding people who do want to play competitively - as there are a LOT of people/groups who want to. current RvR atm is monotonous and dictated by the side with most people, relying on huge numbers to win the enemy.

anyone who is a proper PvP fan will know this is not how it should be. simple. Why should we cater to the average player in a pvp game if they don't care about tactics? there should be some difficulty in this game!

[RyanMakara]

That's precisely what I'm talking about, and it was a huge problem on mythic's servers.

And since you claim I make this argument every time rewards are mentioned, I guess you won't have trouble linking some examples. I'm waiting.

When you reduce his whole argument to a sentiment of people wanting to leech locks, you are using a fallacy, his post was not about "hey lets bring back leeching" it was about how most players dont play this mmo or most mmos with the thought of it being work, is just something they play for a few hours, progress a little and come back later at some point. You reduced it to him wanting leeching back. Stop with that.

I'm sorry to say some people will always miss out, especially in a game that simply requires a lot of hours spent to get somewhere. As this is an MMORPG, those who have more time, have more opportunity in the game. Hours spent should equal to how good you are, be it gear wise, renown rank wise, or skill wise.