chosen kotbs aura idea

[Bozzax]

Would you be increasing the strength of individual buffs at the same time as part of such a change, or do you view this as a solution to both the issues of the poor aura tank mechanic and the power of such tanks?

It'd be easier to increase the power of all auras if you can only one one at the same time, than to scale all buffs accordingly. In fact, this would mean there is more significance in making the right tactical choice in a battle; you could switch out resists at the middle of a fight to increase survivability but to lower damage by swapping it out for strengthening buffs, or vice versa for DPS damage over survivability in order to win a fight. It all depends on who opposes you and what the group may need to win.

I'd much rather fight a group that can have a tactically visible strategy, than to fight against all three at once while the tank simply uses a macro to keep all his stats boosted as an unfair advantage.

This is a tad off topic already. Making 3 auras passive is sort of how the game was so that is reasonable even though it is a small buff.

Making stronger auras is something else. It brings other concerns into play since stacking will be affected. Also every aura is already quite potent so buffing them isn't trivial (see spoilers). Auras natively are AOE with excellent range and buff plus debuff in one pop! Sometimes even multiple items such as all three resists.

Spoiler:

So if you plan on playing other tank than KOTBs don't open these Warned ya!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9HeNw ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9HeNw ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9HeNw ... sp=sharing

[Aquilon]

Why is it always talks about screwing up a fairly good class instead of buffing the rest? Let Kotbs&Chosen be (and take "a fishing tackle" from Mara ), buff hard the rest 4 tanks, that it would be no difference which one of 6 to take in the party.

The original base for auras was that the Chosen'KotBS would give a certain command to the group to bolster them to fight a certain wave against an incoming group. The Chosen/KotBS acts as an army general of sorts; he's supposed to anticipate what the best tactic to fight against the incoming group is, and then bolster his troops accordingly. It should only be logical that only ONE fighting style can be used when the command is given. The linger effect and rapid buff switching was a bit of an exploit due to improper mechanic design.

So, how about a 1 minute cooldown per Aura switch? You wouldn't have the overpowered advantage of all three stat buffs and you cannot actively switch during combat to get all three stat buffs. Instead, you could have one active fighting style based on what the command is supposed to do; buff one stat to set a certain fighting style at the start of a fight, instead of being ready for all other types of fights during it. It was an illogical construct from the start, and it's partially while Chosens/KotBSs were valued so much in groups. Simplifying the mechanic would make it more logical and less OP.

What an utter fail logic. Classes in WAR are already very restrictive and situational, like students kicked out of a Military Academy, that don't know all the drills and tactics. And you propose to "produce" imbecile generals "always attack"&"always defend" on the battlefield. You know, that tactical situation always chenges, don't ya?

PS. Permanent active auras is an acceptable Idea.

[Azarael]

General observation: Buffing without ever nerfing leads to outrageous power creep. An acceptable baseline has to be maintained.

[Aquilon]

General observation: Buffing without ever nerfing leads to outrageous power creep. An acceptable baseline has to be maintained.

If Kotbs&Chosen considered so "unacceptably good", they can be that baseline in the case of tanks, I think.

[Azarael]

Agreed, if KotBS and Chosen represent the ideal power a tank should have.

[Telen]

Where do you start when buffing and when do you stop? Theres 24 classes each with 3 trees. Thats 72 non hybrid specs of which maybe 6 currently are ahead of the others. If your not nerfing then your going to be trying to balance 66 specs. Even with a dedicated experienced careers team thats a huge undertaking when you could nerf 6.

Personally as an emulated server I like the idea of putting war back as close as it can be to the original. Were all starting from scratch and if you absolutely must have a balanced class then you can roll one of the ones that perform well currently.

[RyanMakara]

Would you be increasing the strength of individual buffs at the same time as part of such a change, or do you view this as a solution to both the issues of the poor aura tank mechanic and the power of such tanks?

It'd be easier to increase the power of all auras if you can only one one at the same time, than to scale all buffs accordingly. In fact, this would mean there is more significance in making the right tactical choice in a battle; you could switch out resists at the middle of a fight to increase survivability but to lower damage by swapping it out for strengthening buffs, or vice versa for DPS damage over survivability in order to win a fight. It all depends on who opposes you and what the group may need to win.

I'd much rather fight a group that can have a tactically visible strategy, than to fight against all three at once while the tank simply uses a macro to keep all his stats boosted as an unfair advantage.

think about it let's say i use 1 aura (resistence) so you will buff up that aura? truly? cos well you will still have 2x chosen with 2 aura x party( lets assume that other chosen will use strengh aura) double their effectiveness mean you will have in proportionaly the equivalent of 4 auras with out count which classes will benfith most sorc/bw and chosen itself
Lets say chosen will have capped at max both so you will have chosen/kobs and sorc/bw bombig aoe and this will become the only viable party around, just like it was in past, and it will be no out cos strengh aura + guard + parry will provide too much defense to make melee useless. Furthermore this will benefith more destru than order as kobs do not have ravage....

One aura active per group, despite having two or more Chosens. Having two Chosens in one party is a bad and unexploitive measure, then.

The point I'm trying to make, is that only one aura should be active at a time, because having triple aura rotation just gives a group a massive buff. Having three stats buffed with, let's say a hundred each, is an accumulated total of 300 extra stats. I did vouch for an individual aura increase, without a lingering cooldown, but I never specified how much that would be. I would say somewhere between 50-100% increased power on a single stat. Would that really cause Chosens to crit for 1.8k?

I get how it might stimulate solo off-hand tanking more. But the Chosen's mechanic is a group mechanic, so maybe the aura effects should be more effective on the group than the Chosen himself? A 50% decrease of the aura's effectiveness while solo would discourage solo fighting, and giving it 75% efficiency compared to the 100% the group would get while in a group would be motivation to increase group play.

[Azarael]

Where do you start when buffing and when do you stop? Theres 24 classes each with 3 trees. Thats 72 non hybrid specs of which maybe 6 currently are ahead of the others. If your not nerfing then your going to be trying to balance 66 specs. Even with a dedicated experienced careers team thats a huge undertaking when you could nerf 6.

Personally as an emulated server I like the idea of putting war back as close as it can be to the original. Were all starting from scratch and if you absolutely must have a balanced class then you can roll one of the ones that perform well currently.

You start by shaving off the issues at both ends - fix the most overpowered classes and abilities, buff the most underpowered classes and abilities. Then you play it for a while, a new meta develops and the process repeats. It's not difficult, provided it's run by people who a) understand the game b) are willing to be adventurous c) are not partisan to any given class, and are willing to ignore long rant posts from people defending their OP and d) make only a FEW changes at a time.

You're correct in saying that it's a huge undertaking, and any attempt at balance takes time. However, the good thing is that by progressively dealing with the most obvious issues, you gradually improve the state of the game and the immediate benefit is visible.

If you only buff, you get power creep. If you only nerf, you get power drain and you will meet SEVERE resistance from the people who played the classes which were on top in the previous patch. This will still occur during balance, of course, but the important thing to remember (from experience) is that however much people cry about whatever buff or nerf you apply, they will get over it and they will generally get over it very quickly if you actually did a good job and didn't screw it up.

[RyanMakara]

Why is it always talks about screwing up a fairly good class instead of buffing the rest? Let Kotbs&Chosen be (and take "a fishing tackle" from Mara ), buff hard the rest 4 tanks, that it would be no difference which one of 6 to take in the party.

The original base for auras was that the Chosen'KotBS would give a certain command to the group to bolster them to fight a certain wave against an incoming group. The Chosen/KotBS acts as an army general of sorts; he's supposed to anticipate what the best tactic to fight against the incoming group is, and then bolster his troops accordingly. It should only be logical that only ONE fighting style can be used when the command is given. The linger effect and rapid buff switching was a bit of an exploit due to improper mechanic design.

So, how about a 1 minute cooldown per Aura switch? You wouldn't have the overpowered advantage of all three stat buffs and you cannot actively switch during combat to get all three stat buffs. Instead, you could have one active fighting style based on what the command is supposed to do; buff one stat to set a certain fighting style at the start of a fight, instead of being ready for all other types of fights during it. It was an illogical construct from the start, and it's partially while Chosens/KotBSs were valued so much in groups. Simplifying the mechanic would make it more logical and less OP.

What an utter fail logic. Classes in WAR are already very restrictive and situational, like students kicked out of a Military Academy, that don't know all the drills and tactics. And you propose to "produce" imbecile generals "always attack"&"always defend" on the battlefield. You know, that tactical situation always chenges, don't ya?

PS. Permanent active auras is an acceptable Idea.

Well excuse me for putting it in a logical perspective of what the class mechanic appeared to be. In its current form it seems like a massive group buffing that can be somewhat permanent during a fight when a Chosen/KotBS is using Twister. I don't get how changing that idea to a single, slightly stronger stat increase is such a bad idea.

Tactical situation always change, BUT NOT EVERY 4.5 SECONDS LIKE THE AURA SWITCHING IMPLIES. That was my exact point by giving people one permanent aura that they will have to stick to for a minute; you can't change your tactic THAT rapidly in combat. Using Twister doesn't encourage tactic changing to change the course of a fight, it encourages bolstering 3 different tactics to stay powerful on all fronts. THAT'S illogical.

The comparison to rookie soldiers versus generals can easily be rebutted by comparing level 1 tanks to level 40 tanks. As your character levels, so should your skill and understanding of the class. And, there's good and bad generals out there; some will **** up group fighting with their lack of tactical understanding, and others will excel by making the right choice. Maybe a 1 minute cooldown is a bit excessive, but at least give some merit to the idea that rotating 3 tactics at once is NOT how this class was designed to be.

[Telen]

You start by shaving off the issues at both ends
...
quickly if you actually did a good job and didn't screw it up.

Totally agree. You have to nerf. Its far easier. If you go down the buffing everyone route some will get left behind. Who would you buff first? dpswp dpszealot meleesquig? There loads of specs that underachieve but only a handful that are op. Nerfing those would be the way to go. If you were to.