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Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

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Nanji
Posts: 312

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#31 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:55 pm

Gobtar wrote:
Nanji wrote: The weaker premades will simply only play with 5 men or will not queue to not get rekt.
That's why you throw in a 6v6 only SC like EC which would be the fastest way to get Emblems. You want to chicken out and only run a 5 man well, you aren't going to get the emblems as fast! I dunno, killing pugs gets old really fast, on the flip side if everyone runs 5 man, said wimpy players will just get REKT by 5 mans and not queue at all...
So what is the gain for a bad 6 man here?
They queue, they lose, they get 1 emblem.
They go 5man they win, they get 6 emblems. Guess 6v6 scs are not 6 times faster and are not popping as frequently as random pug scs.
inactive on forums to avoid final ban

class imbalance = l2p issue

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Gobtar
Posts: 799

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#32 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:02 pm

EC takes like 2 mins, a farming Tor Anroc can take a full 15. you can do 7 ECs in the time it takes to do High Pass Cemetary or Tor Anroc, and each EC has a chance of playing against a different 6 man.

Another thing if we all know that there is a comp for SCs, all someone has to do is say in advice chat that there is a loser 5 man running SCs then the 6 mans that they are running from can drop a player to go mess em up...such delicate flowers will only take a couple losses before they rage-log...you can bench one player for solo queuing...

Basically though worst case SC, Premades who actually want a challange will fight each other, and PUGs will fight less premades...only have to worry about the bad ones that they have a better chance against.
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Penril
Posts: 4441

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#33 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:05 pm

Only a bad premade would go "hey, lets form a 5 man so we can farm pugs". And these premades are easy to beat, even while pugging.

Good premades look for good fights.

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Nanji
Posts: 312

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#34 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:06 pm

Gobtar wrote:EC takes like 2 mins, a farming Tor Anroc can take a full 15. you can do 7 ECs in the time it takes to do High Pass Cemetary or Tor Anroc, and each EC has a chance of playing against a different 6 man.

Another thing if we all know that there is a comp for SCs, all someone has to do is say in advice chat that there is a loser 5 man running SCs then the 6 mans that they are running from can drop a player to go mess em up...such delicate flowers will only take a couple losses before they rage-log...you can bench one player for solo queuing...

Basically though worst case SC, Premades who actually want a challange will fight each other, and PUGs will fight less premades...only have to worry about the bad ones that they have a better chance against.
How many premades are under way on both sides? 1-3? Any people care about ingame deaths. :)
Also you are comparing the best to the worst case. Doest make much sense.
From the perspective of a player in a premade I can tell you that premade vs premade only results in no scs for premades.
inactive on forums to avoid final ban

class imbalance = l2p issue

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Genisaurus
Former Staff
Posts: 1054

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#35 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:12 pm

This is exactly why the general queuing system will never force groups of any size to only play against each other. We can have specific 6v6 scenarios that only allow 6-man groups to queue for them, that's fine and not abusable in any way i can see.

But general-queue SCs will only ever, at best, try to keep the number and size of groups even on either side. If a 6-man queues for a general-queue scenario, the matchmaking system can try to find another 6-man on the opposing team, and if it can't find one it can search for a 5-man, etc. We will not put premades in a separate queue altogether.

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#36 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:15 pm

Genisaurus wrote:This is exactly why the general queuing system will never force groups of any size to only play against each other. We can have specific 6v6 scenarios that only allow 6-man groups to queue for them, that's fine and not abusable in any way i can see.

But general-queue SCs will only ever, at best, try to keep the number and size of groups even on either side. If a 6-man queues for a general-queue scenario, the matchmaking system can try to find another 6-man on the opposing team, and if it can't find one it can search for a 5-man, etc. We will not put premades in a separate queue altogether.
How long does it take for the matchmaking system to give up on 6-man team and start looking for 5-man/4-man etc?

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Nameless
Posts: 1440

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#37 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:49 pm

i just hope to not see EC at RoR! Ever!
Mostly harmless

K8P & Norn - guild Orz

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Genisaurus
Former Staff
Posts: 1054

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#38 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:57 pm

rmpl wrote:
Genisaurus wrote:This is exactly why the general queuing system will never force groups of any size to only play against each other. We can have specific 6v6 scenarios that only allow 6-man groups to queue for them, that's fine and not abusable in any way i can see.

But general-queue SCs will only ever, at best, try to keep the number and size of groups even on either side. If a 6-man queues for a general-queue scenario, the matchmaking system can try to find another 6-man on the opposing team, and if it can't find one it can search for a 5-man, etc. We will not put premades in a separate queue altogether.
How long does it take for the matchmaking system to give up on 6-man team and start looking for 5-man/4-man etc?
Remember, this isn't a thing that's in place yet, I'm speaking purely in hypotheticals about improving the system that's there.

But to answer your question, we would need to ask, "What's the worst-case-scenario amount of time we want a group to have to wait for a queue?" Once we have that, we can work backwards.

The logic I'm imagine now would work like this:

Code: Select all

Repeat for numPartiesPerFaction times {
N = 0
x = 1;
1. Search (for (worst-case wait time / 5) seconds, or until one is found )for a (6-N) size group to put on Faction_A:Party[x].
       If it cannot find one, increment N and repeat step 1.
       If it finds one, reset N=0 and proceed to step 2

2. Search (for (worst-case wait time / 5) seconds, or until one is found) for a (6-N) size group for Faction_B:Party[x].
      If it cannot find one, increment N and repeat step 2.
      If it finds one, reset N=0 and proceed to step 3

3. increment x
}

/* Now each party has a group, of some size. Ideally a 6-man, but the largest one that could be found. Next we try to fill the gaps with smaller parties */

Repeat for numPartiesPerFaction times {
N = Faction_A:Party[x].size
x = 1
1. Search (for (worst-case wait time / 5) seconds, or until one is found) for a (6-N) size group to put on Faction_A:Party[x].
       If it cannot find one, increment N and repeat step 1.
       If it finds one, reset N=Faction_B:Party[x].size and proceed to step 2

2. Search (for (worst-case wait time / 5) seconds, or until one is found) for a (6-N) size group for Faction_B:Party[x].
      If it cannot find one, increment N and repeat step 2.
      If it finds one, proceed to step 3

3. increment x
}

/* Now each party has at least one group of the largest size available, and we've tried to fill any gaps in each party with a second, smaller group. This is all the groups we can reasonably fit. */

-- Search (for (worst-case wait time / 5) seconds, or until one is found) for solo-queued players to fill any remaining gaps here --
Nameless wrote:i just hope to not see EC at RoR! Ever!
Tough ****. If you don't like it, don't queue for it. I see no reason to omit completely optional content just because it wasn't liked.
Last edited by Genisaurus on Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Sulorie
Posts: 7461

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#39 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:59 pm

First give incentives to build groups in general. In groups you can't leech and it solves several sc/rvr flaws.
Dying is no option.

Tiggo
Former Staff
Posts: 1948

Re: Scenarios - getting rid of leechers.

Post#40 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:02 pm

Genisaurus wrote: One idea we've been playing with internally are scenarios you can only queue for as a group, like a 6v6 EC, to remove some premades from the larger queues filled with PUGs. We can also make the system require X of each archetype before it will build the SC instance. Just some ideas we'll be testing in the future, and as usual, no promises.

well you would be my eternal god for making this ^^
- Martock - Tiggo - Antigonos - Mago - Hamilkar - Melquart
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