Questions regarding Leading Shots and Dity Tricks

[Tesq]

that's why i suggested to put these tactis on 11 point so that kobs can not take 3/3 but just 2/3 for exemple,

anyway no there is not a single tank with 1)so much group utility that is also 2)passive and 3) requrie so few/no tradeoff.

why run 2x kobs? because too many group support stuff + aura could be an answer.

That's why i asked to tone down those 100% update tactic and also remove the punt tactic, KOBS/chosen are fine as buffer until this mean they are staple in 1x, but also have other not base tools as super punt which should be something of blackguard/IB is just problematic.

The other group utility tools they have should be look in the ottic of be equal in regard the other tanks support.

[Penril]

The thing i would change about KotBS is how EA and DT are applied. Currently the KotBS can be afk and still give that 20% crit bonus. Kinda dull...

If those tactics remain at 10% each, i would at least make it so the KotBS has to work for it. For example change EA from having an aura apply it to, instead, make it proc when the KotBS hits (maybe even crits) the enemy. Something like that. In other words, change his buffs from Passive to Active.

That change would be enough for me, tbt.

kotbs has too many good tactics, if you change EA he just takes something different (healbless for example).

I would change that one too (passive to active). Something like Blessing of Grungni.

Imho, the more powerful a buff is, the more active you need to be in order to use it. In the case of the KotBS, he can use his most powerful buffs just by being AFK.

You always talk about skill. Dont you agree that the best buffs/debuffs in the game should be active instead of passive? Your BO has to constantly attack your enemies so he can stat steal. Your SM has to coordinate WW with you so you guys can benefit the most from it. He needs to attack someone (and get a proc on HB) in order to debuff his spirit resist to pretty much zero. Your WE needs to think and decide when it is better to use HRT or WB or just run with 5 frenzies and benefit from FM.

KotBS just has to slot 3 tactics, run 2 auras, guard someone and immediate debuffs his enemies chance to be crit by 10%, grants another 10% crit chance on heals and hit to his group, and 15% extra healing received (talking abour level 39, of course; he cant use those 3 atm). He can pretty much go /follow at this point and still be useful. No other class can do that (im talking about /follow and be useful).

Fine. Don't nerf the values of those bufs. But change the way the KotBS gets access to them (activate on hit, crit, % proc, something like that).

Keep the values as they are, but dont have those tactics associated with Auras. Make the KotBs actually work for them.

[Tesq]

ye there are different kind of approach but a trade off is needed, this cannot be denied, it's just requrie to choose the one that it dont make the class bad and also dont change too much how it was used on live.

It pretty feel as the base rule :

active effect "must" be stronger than passive for obvious reasons was not used on the kobs.

i see kobs/chosen as buffer tanks and so they need to buff and have very few/no actvive tools ; and not so strong anyway. Their passive buff cannot be so much strong also, or be equally, better of other tanks active tools, or also have the same active tools of other classes ( like super punt tactic).

[Bozzax]

The thing i would change about KotBS is how EA and DT are applied. Currently the KotBS can be afk and still give that 20% crit bonus. Kinda dull...

If those tactics remain at 10% each, i would at least make it so the KotBS has to work for it. For example change EA from having an aura apply it to, instead, make it proc when the KotBS hits (maybe even crits) the enemy. Something like that. In other words, change his buffs from Passive to Active.

That change would be enough for me, tbt.

kotbs has too many good tactics, if you change EA he just takes something different (healbless for example).

Spot on!

I'd use the wording "too many good group tactics" (aoe snare, super punt, in crit, out group crit, incoming heal, anti shaman ... ). After a while we will get to the M3 NE which is the best M3 in game.

The fact that +10% crits yields +10% healcrits as well is just absurd. There simply isn't a better tac in game.

EDIT: To all those SWs that has no room for LS I say good luck playing solo until you start wondering why non one wants you in party. Same reason you SORCs should try out IG from time to time (in group).

[Jaycub]

I would change that one too (passive to active). Something like Blessing of Grungni.

Imho, the more powerful a buff is, the more active you need to be in order to use it. In the case of the KotBS, he can use his most powerful buffs just by being AFK.

You always talk about skill. Dont you agree that the best buffs/debuffs in the game should be active instead of passive? Your BO has to constantly attack your enemies so he can stat steal. Your SM has to coordinate WW with you so you guys can benefit the most from it. He needs to attack someone (and get a proc on HB) in order to debuff his spirit resist to pretty much zero. Your WE needs to think and decide when it is better to use HRT or WB or just run with 5 frenzies and benefit from FM.

KotBS just has to slot 3 tactics, run 2 auras, guard someone and immediate debuffs his enemies chance to be crit by 10%, grants another 10% crit chance on heals and hit to his group, and 15% extra healing received (talking abour level 39, of course; he cant use those 3 atm). He can pretty much go /follow at this point and still be useful. No other class can do that (im talking about /follow and be useful).

Fine. Don't nerf the values of those bufs. But change the way the KotBS gets access to them (activate on hit, crit, % proc, something like that).

Keep the values as they are, but dont have those tactics associated with Auras. Make the KotBs actually work for them.

This would definitely be the best case scenario, the knight is by far the most boring class to play in the game. Chosen gets much funner toys while knight gets OP build via tactics (slotting tactics sure is fun :^) )

Honestly anything that would increase the skillcap should be welcomed with open arms in this game, especially on a class like knight.

[Azarael]

This would definitely be the best case scenario, the knight is by far the most boring class to play in the game. Chosen gets much funner toys while knight gets OP build via tactics (slotting tactics sure is fun :^) )

Honestly anything that would increase the skillcap should be welcomed with open arms in this game, especially on a class like knight.

Yup. The aura mechanic has a severe effort/reward imbalance. When so many of the class's skills are given over to a passive mechanic (9 in all, I believe) you know you've got a problem with your class design.

[Jaycub]

You could make it so knight auras require them to play a game similar to DDR while in combat and their score effects the auras effectiveness, as well as adding in dance animations. That way only the most fabulous and flamboyant knights get the most out of their class.

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

[Azarael]

I find it difficult to see how the mechanic can be salvaged. I don't even bother playing either Chosen or Knight because I just can't stand the boredom and that these classes have required status because they are allowed to benefit from positive aspects given to them based on their mechanic requiring concentration / muscle memory if played correctly which are no longer justified in the absence of this drawback.

I mean, why does the game even NEED passive buffer tanks? What kind of role is fulfilled by that?

[Jaycub]

If you are running a group that only has one tank, which isn't totally ideal having a tank like knight/chosen is the best thing you can have because they can just exist and buff the group while focusing on floating guard, punts etc... You can't get near the same effectiveness as a solo IB/SM for example.

The most fun I ever had on my knight on live was playing solo tank for some of my premades because I actually had to play well instead of just guarding 1 guy and existing. Every action you take means way more because there isn't another tank to make up for it, your punts had to be great and positioning perfect etc...

that probably didn't answer any questions but it just where I think that type of passive buffing mechanic works the best because it allows you to be at full effectiveness while focusing on other things. But i can see where that type of tank just becomes mandatory regardless of group comp.

I think the best thing to do aside from actives > passives is to make it so the knight auras (and potions :^) ) don't interfere with the other tanks effectiveness by making a lot of the buffs etc... they do becomes pointless / lost in stacking. Could nerf auras a bit, but keep the original values on self... then make them a separate buff that stacks with everything. This would lower their group effectiveness via auras, and bring up the usefulness of a lot of buffs the SM/BO IB/BG can give.

[Tesq]

chosen/kobs are aoe buffer tanks, originally their auras worked out of party -->100 feet no max targets.

Their role is buff something to a certain value to avoid lack of stats. Like resistences, they have the best res buf inn game which it can also get negate by every ST debuff in game, which mean it act as a protection from have 0% magic resistence.


Aruras are needed, to balance a lot of the gameplay aspect, it's the presence of the other tools on chosen/kobs that make then what they are not suppsoe to do best tanks in game.

AM/SH buff is cleanseable , same for zealot/rp so those buff are not good as chosen/kobs, same for those fail war bellow of BO / sm counter part

if sm/BO could effectivly buff magic resistences, and chosen/kobs active tools / passive op tools as super punt / kobs tactics get nerfed to the ground you will see a lot more differently party composition.


Am/zealot/rp/shammy buff value should be increase because their buff value cannot cover the enemy ST debuff and they are also removeable, which sucks. They should be strong as chosen/kobs and be change to buff alredy.

In my opinion the solution is not nerf chosen/kobs auras values, cos these values are fine and they should be mirrored instead into those subpar buff which never get use (rp/zeal use always instead str/int buff)(sh/am can really avoid to use the that one, the only reason is shield 1 ench hot to be removed)(make 1 BO/SM buff efficency proc magic/armor buff)