Return of Reckoning

ALSO! Changing their gimped ranged healing will be devastating to the spec, because it will just turn it into another salvation wp, ruining the unique playstyle.

Except that if you link the power of their casted heals to actually playing in melee by copying Strength to Willpower in increasing amounts based on attacks dealt, that doesn't happen.

I should have done that instead of the detaunt, honestly.

Azarael wrote:Except that if you link the power of their casted heals to actually playing in melee by copying Strength to Willpower in increasing amounts based on attacks dealt, that doesn't happen.

I should have done that instead of the detaunt, honestly.

That still would not grant them a healer position in a guild WB, they (me) would still be used to fill empty dps slots because salvation WP is an actual healing spec, grace is not.

No matter what change you do to their healing, they will never be as good as a salvation warrior priest. The only way they would be as good would be to change them to ranged healing, which is just blatantly ruining the class. In order to bring them to a competitive yet fun level, they must be a viable dps worthy of their dps slot in the warband.

I speak this way because melee healers are not able to heal in siege/holdout scenarios, because they cannot heal off the enemy. This means they are sitting in a healer spot NOT HEALING, or atleast not as much as an actual healer would. They sit there with the melee dps, because that is where they belong, with the melee dps. That is how they should be treated, as melee.

If WP is in the group with 2 other healers and you buff him 2handed to the point that he will be having fun - no one else will.

BrosephStylin wrote:I speak this way because melee healers are not able to heal in siege/holdout scenarios, because they cannot heal off the enemy. This means they are sitting in a healer spot NOT HEALING, or atleast not as much as an actual healer would. They sit there with the melee dps, because that is where they belong, with the melee dps. That is how they should be treated, as melee.

So your entire argument about Grace needing DPS is because they haven't much to contribute during defense on keep sieges when the gate is still up?

I've always viewed the WP as a tanky support healer, can survive on the frontlines due to self healing and modest damage. In essence I like to view the Grace WP as a paladin. And the detaunt is alright but really I've not noticed any difference in WP performance, you die just as easily as always. Why don't you first decide decisively what the class spec SHOULD be, a hybrid, a paladin, a DPS, a healer. And then split it down the middle between 1v1 abilities and group abilities. Group abilities being heal abilities which provide bonuses to the WP and the group whilst having his 1v1 abilities do spirit or strength damage whilst also healing him, but lower the damage.

ThePollie wrote: So your entire argument about Grace needing DPS is because they haven't much to contribute during defense on keep sieges when the gate is still up?

TBH that's the same with every melee class, they cannot really do anything in defense except when the door collapses or during keep lord defense.

ThePollie wrote:

BrosephStylin wrote:I speak this way because melee healers are not able to heal in siege/holdout scenarios, because they cannot heal off the enemy. This means they are sitting in a healer spot NOT HEALING, or atleast not as much as an actual healer would. They sit there with the melee dps, because that is where they belong, with the melee dps. That is how they should be treated, as melee.

So your entire argument about Grace needing DPS is because they haven't much to contribute during defense on keep sieges when the gate is still up?

Yes, actually. In a game centered around orvr with objectives and sieges, Grace WP is only actually useful in the short moments when an actual melee begins. This is usually the LAST stage in a fight, with one side losing and getting wiped after the melee. Only in these BRIEF MOMENTS is grace wp a slightly useful class because of the okayish heals they provide during the melee. This means that your group has to have 2 other actual healers in before hand, to heal your group before you are actual able to heal. So this means (if you are in a good group) you only have one actual dps. That is terrible. If grace wp is given some level of competitive dps that would obviously be lower than other mdps, they would actually help their group in the damage area.

Scrilian wrote:If WP is in the group with 2 other healers and you buff him 2handed to the point that he will be having fun - no one else will.

Why? the 2h wps dps will be buffed yes, but nothing compared to a slayers. This means that the 6 man group would be putting out much less dps than a double slayer group. If you can't manage that then you aren't very good.

I should clarify my own viewpoint here. I don't care that Grace WP as I view it won't be viable in zerg PvP. Other specs have that issue as well. My main concern is for the usefulness of the spec in smaller scale engagements.