Patch Notes 31/1/2017

[dur3al]

+ QE!! I still haven't seen one post to debunk me and the reasons why I explained to bring it back.

It's too strong and would end up being mandatory, just like CW/RD currently are for many classes (expect those addressed soon too). In fact, I would expect a complete rework to the whole Renown abilities system.

Just like CW/RD, it is NOT mandatory for groups, people who don't know how to position themselves will obviously pick those skills on detrimental of their damage or healing, so that is fine - that is speaking about group play. Casual/solo players is something else and those skills will obviously bring you the advantage in some situations - but the game should be balanced for group play correct? Even on live with my rr100 WH I only used RD1 and used very rarely, usually just to get some kills in very-tough-to-kill-players surrounded by healers and tanks, everything else was losing burst damage.

If everyone decides to use QE that is fine too, you'll be reducing TTK since they'll not be without cost, they would reduce damage overall from renown points. But more importantly: mostly players who fight outnumbered and in a ST coordinated group will be reaping the full benefits of QE.. Because of "on-being-hit" factor, read my previous posts to understand if its still not clear. Isn't this what Aza is trying to achieve? To push people to play more in coordinated groups?

Consider some scenarios when everyone specs for QE:

a) Equal fight with both groups in a ST coordinated group fighting: QE doesn't really benefit anyone apart from giving melee a small edge. Isn't this intended?
b) Equal fight with one AoE coordinated group versus a ST coordinated group: QE will proc slightly more to the ST group giving them an edge. Isn't this intended?
c) Unequal fight with "blob" vs ST coordinated group: ST group will have QE on their side making it possible for them to kite/disengage and survive - read my previous posts where I explained this is how you fight blobs. Hit-and-run etc. Isn't this intended?
d) Unequal fight with "blob" vs "blob": Not really any advantage to anyone since procs will happen equally for both sides - reduces TTK.
e) Unequal fight with "blob" vs AoE coordinated group (or guild warbands): AoE coordinated group will have QE on their side since they'll all be receiving much more hits from different sources, it enables them to have a small edge to push the blob away. It will actually be beneficial for every group (even guild warbands) when facing higher odds. Isn't this also intended?

How is this not common sense? How can you guys tell me "its to stronk skill" as an argument, without properly explaining WHY?
How is this types of answers any different from the very same players you guys criticize, who come to forums and QQ every single change done without properly explaining why?

[Edennae]

Spoiler:

Bonjour,
Ce patch est totalement incompréhensif et ne va pas dans le sens du jeu.

Ca donne l'impression d'une modification isolée par un seul individu sans aucune cohésion avec le reste des équipes.

Je n'ai pas lu les 28 pages d'avant, mais sachez qu'en tant que RL de la LNM, ca me casse bien les noix votre patch.



Eden

Post in English when not in a language specific subforum please. -Natherul

[Aurandilaz]

Heck, stop blaming morals or people using AoE often... the reason people have to resort to spamming morals and AoE is because the map and the campaign itself force such an outcome. Don't blame the symptom, take a look at the cause of the disease.

The only way to spread the zerg is to give the zerg more objectives to control and fight over; either open more zones or somehow figure how to place more objectives into RvR lakes...

[charlysixb]

+ QE!! I still haven't seen one post to debunk me and the reasons why I explained to bring it back.

It's too strong and would end up being mandatory, just like CW/RD currently are for many classes (expect those addressed soon too). In fact, I would expect a complete rework to the whole Renown abilities system.

CW3 + RD = 40RR points, if you throw in futile strikes even more...that and losing a nice amount of dps ( % critics ).
Its a big payout for survivality ( not everybody is +60RR lvl ).
Same if i'm wearing armor talismans .
Should everybody just play with same gear, with same specs and under six man groups?

[Arteker616]

+ QE!! I still haven't seen one post to debunk me and the reasons why I explained to bring it back.

It's too strong and would end up being mandatory, just like CW/RD currently are for many classes (expect those addressed soon too). In fact, I would expect a complete rework to the whole Renown abilities system.

CW3 + RD = 40RR points, if you throw in futile strikes even more...that and losing a nice amount of dps ( % critics ).
Its a big payout for survivality ( not everybody is +60RR lvl ).
Same if i'm wearing armor talismans .
Should everybody just play with same gear, with same specs and under six man groups?

Looks like it, we turning into a kind of moba.

[Azarael]

What do you think about Haojin`s suggestion?

About the only decent point made was that AoE snare spam is out of line. I don't agree that changing stagger or AoE knockbacks will do **** all given how this game handles immunities, unless you scale the stagger as well, and both have effects on small scale. You can change morale to remove the dominant strategy, but another, similarly shitty strategy will replace it because changing morales alone won't stop winning by numbers, blobbing or zerging. I'm especially intrigued as to how an original point from a few pages back (nerfing AoE will force mass ST from warbands) suddenly winks out of existence because morale is nerfed.

Also, I'm sick of reading objective based design being blamed for zerging / blobs. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about the idea that you can have, in a properly designed system, a large number of players in a single section of the map WITHOUT causing a blob. The blob is caused by the combat system failing to punish blobbing. Nothing - more.

[Penril]

Just like CW/RD, it is NOT mandatory for groups, people who don't know how to position themselves will obviously pick those skills on detrimental of their damage or healing, so that is fine - that is speaking about group play. Casual/solo players is something else and those skills will obviously bring you the advantage in some situations - but the game should be balanced for group play correct? Even on live with my rr100 WH I only used RD1 and used very rarely, usually just to get some kills in very-tough-to-kill-players surrounded by healers and tanks, everything else was losing burst damage.

"key" players using CW and RD (and this isn't even RvR): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x15cUAHtJEw

Yeah, sorry, have to call BS on your post. CW, RD and QE are simply too good compared to other renown abilities.

[roadkillrobin]

You know small scale assisting is just a smaller scale of a blob right? Focusing damage on a single point.

[bloodi]

Just some thoughts about the changes for what i played yesterday.

Its not a bad idea, however, due to lack of client control i assume, its a bit of a hit and miss and makes some cases a bit too extreme.

For example, you can get up to 3k hits with WL using slashin blade with flanking tactic + Primal fury, we tried dropping the attack speed tactic for the ap one, made our rp slot ap tactic and got an IB with told ya so, went into people, popped primal fury and spammed a button, yeah you die but usually you bring down multiple people with you, in fnnel situations like manor in Eataine, we could stand inside and just spam while aoe did all the work.

Then we changed to BWs in our group to compare, a normal AoE BW, has to stand in the same range a WL using Slashing Blade would be, its AoE rotation usually implies dotting up people with Fire Breath, using annihilate and then fiery blast if there was any proc from flashfire or a couple scorched earths while you get fire breath band annihilate out of cd.

Now if you check the changes you will realize this cannot ever get boosted, is not a STR based skill, so it can theorically achieve the same numbers it used to have but overall, will find that usually the numbers are lower in most cases and will not ever get more than it did.

If you compare both classes, survivability wise, wl or any mdps has more of it, may lack cauterize and an aoe root but hasaoe detaunt, a lot more armor, a mechanic that doesnt hurt him while casting and so on, so while the ability of dropping fiery blasts and rain of fire from afar is surely there, when it comes to being a PbAoE dd. it simply gets outclassed in every way, why would you ever run it anymore, sure M2 morale dumps are great but when you can get a lot more damage without relying on the morale long cds, you would much rather do 1k on a normal basis than 1.2k every minute.

Since its probably related to implementation of physical/magical abilities are tied to the user main stat being either int or str, i would like in the future for such a system to distinguish between long and close range abilities, so things like Aannihilate or Disasstrous Cascade get a similat treatment other AoE abilities from mdps get, they work in the same ranges and being in such ranges is a bit more dangerous for casters, dont punish them so much for it.

Also, i think if the system kicked in in more extreme cases it would be much more welcome, that is, instead of counting every ally, count every ally above 6, so hitting tails as a 6 or 12 man is not as punished due to the lack of enemies (they are a bit futher, just not in range yet).

Overall the idea is good, just needes to shave the rough edges, there is quite a bit of them at the moment.

[Arteker616]

What do you think about Haojin`s suggestion?

About the only decent point made was that AoE snare spam is out of line. I don't agree that changing stagger or AoE knockbacks will do **** all given how this game handles immunities, unless you scale the stagger as well, and both have effects on small scale. You can change morale to remove the dominant strategy, but another, similarly shitty strategy will replace it because changing morales alone won't stop winning by numbers, blobbing or zerging. I'm especially intrigued as to how an original point from a few pages back (nerfing AoE will force mass ST from warbands) suddenly winks out of existence because morale is nerfed.

Also, I'm sick of reading objective based design being blamed for zerging / blobs. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about the idea that you can have, in a properly designed system, a large number of players in a single section of the map WITHOUT causing a blob. The blob is caused by the combat system failing to punish blobbing. Nothing - more.

No the blob is caused because the safety in numbers syndrome . its player fault, 6 man will do his job and pick his battles, trios duos or solos will still do his stuff and play and plan knowing their posibilitys .

u can change the system whatever u want u will not change the fact people is lazy and rather blob up zerg than try small scale . because there is aswell people who enjoy largue battles of zerg vs zerg . using flank maneuvers etc to rip a zerg apart.