Patch Notes 31/1/2017

[Haojin]

I talked with some rvr guilds of destro and order side aka 100+ players and the feeling is atm something like that:

Spoiler:

Click here to watch on YouTube

Depends on the calibration. Can you blob if you're taking 4x the damage from cleaves? How about 5x or 6x? What about if I refine the mechanics into a shockwave-type attack which propagates through dense mass and will hit more loosely defined masses? What then?

Possibilities and imposilities. Keep toying/trolling the players and we'll see how many players remain in this server. I was talking about "mentality -which i dislike-" and "punishing with an exploidable mechanic" instead of "feedback-change duo" is not a good way to go.

For me, the game should resolve to groups as units, not warbands as units. MMO ability systems are small scale designs and go to **** in large scale.

Disagree but this is your "personal" opinion. Could you explain why defensive support/aoe dps/utility specs exist ? what about group/party synergies ? Because they designed for warband sized fights. You can't win RvR campaign with 4 x fotm st party.

I explained quite clearly that the intent is to break larger combats down into smaller scale ones by making mass a weakness rather than a strength. That won't happen unless I get the calibration and mechanics right. I don't quite understand how you could view it any other way, or do you think that I think two warbands blobbing and cleaving into each other is any more skilled than M2 trash?

So Aza, could you tell me:
Why we still need a zerg to kill keep lord atm ?
Why we have choking points like keeps, keep doors?
Why we have only 2 spawn point [ keep-warcamp] in the zone ?
Why we're stucked in one zone ?

You're saying you want to break the zerg mentality but the whole rvr campaign ONLY works with zerg mentality.

It's astonishing how many people don't understand the concept of a punish mechanic - one that overperforms if and only if you make some elementary error to allow it to work. In this case the aim is to make massing and blobbing the error in question.

We can understand this concept could punish you even you're not zerging.

Everyone needs a CLEAR information about new patch aka values/effected abilities ect. The patch note thread isn't helping at all.

Correct me if i'm wrong but did this idea evolved like this ? I'm really trying to understand.

A-

Spoiler:

A-Simple blob formation, all aoe abilities stacking. [ Even in this formation bombing not that effective if you're not really zerging or taking help from morale burst damage.]

B-

Spoiler:

B-With new patch, if you want to bomb effectively with 360 degree abilities you need to be like that [ which is impossible to execute a formation like that]

C-

Spoiler:

C-So, cause of 360 degree bombing not that effective, people gonna rely on conal bombing abilities. If you stay like a line you gonna lose tons of aoe potantial. With friendly debuff the damage will be ultimate fluffy.

D-

Spoiler:

D-Aiming with conal abilties [Which is really hard to execute due "Fastest Framerate+Animation" issues, you have a little spot to make REAL damage potantial. And again with friendly debuff, it's fluff ]

.....................................................................................................................................

In the current state of the game, the roles in the warband from destro perspective like this:

frontline [ mdps + tanks ] : debuffing + cc ing + htl + pushing + morale dumping
semi frontline [ rdps bomb ] : doing the killing job + ranged cc
backline [healers]

After the change it'll be like:

frontline [ mdps + tanks ] : debuffing + ccing +htl + pushing + morale dumping + buffed mdps bomb
semi frontline [ rdps st ]: doing the killing job with st abilities with hard assisting.
backline [healer]

OR

frontline [mdps + tanks]: debuffing + ccing +htl + pushing + morale dumping + buffed mdps bomb
backline [healers]

OR

frontline [tanks] : debuffing +hard ccing + hard htling + hard pushing + hard morale dumping + good survivability
backline [healers]

OR

2-2-2 or 1-3-2 fotm setups with 4 parties.

......................................................................................................

Final Thoughts:
1-Debuffing starts with 2 man and damage buff starts with 6+ man. This numbers NOT define of a ZERGY athmosphere.

2-Some game mechanics forces people to act like a blob:

a-Guard
b-HTL
c-Map design [Keeps, BO's, Objective based RvR Design]

3- What makes big fights bursty/dull:

a-AoE Damage Morales.

Suggestion:
*Reduce the morale regen rate of DfV, YSmBT, EtF. [ It should be exactly the same ] OR bound these tactics to certain abilities.
*Reduce the morale regen rate of AM - Shaman morale pumps.
*Reduce the morale drain rate of Marauder OR give aoe morale drain to WE/WH OyK/DG while changing CB tactic of Mara.
*Change Solar Flare M4 value like %X.
*AoE morales will hit %100 [maybe %120] for tank classes %75 for dd classes %50 for healer classes. [This option for shield walls/funnels ]

b-Numbers aka Zerg

To stop the numbers/zerg you need CC abilities. In the current state of the game CC's are just a bad joke.

Suggestion:
* Increase the range of Stagger for Chosen/Knight
* Increase the number of aoe cap for Stagger. [ 9 to 15 ]
* Increase the range of AoE knockbacks of SM/BO.
* Increase the number of AoE cap for SM-BO AoE knockbacks. [ 9 to 15 ]
* Decrease the defensibility of SM-BO AoE knockbacks.
* Increase the potantial of AoE Snares for BG/IB.

c-Stucky combat

When you engage, it's really hard to maneuver or tactical fall back due to AoE snares.

Suggestion:
*Decrease the value of AoE snares from ALL classes except BG/IB. [ Maybe they found their spots in warbands like this ]



Have a good day.

[dur3al]

I agree that the moral bomb issue is much greater then the AoE abilities themselves.

Perhaps how about you use your own moral gain rate, but makes it that you gain full moral as a 6 man, 1/2 as a 12 man, 1/3 as a 18 man and 1/4 as a 24 man. Or something like this. This way warbands won't really build morals that fast for bombing.

If you think that guilds will then split up in 6 man groups, but still run together blobbed this is actually not that bad because there will be no x-heals among the warband, nor x-resses - nor one group will be designed just for a "role" in the warband, every unit must be sustainable on their own.

Couple this with some tweaking of certain moral abilities, pump and drains themselves and you should be able to make zergy situations builds you less moral - making big fights less bursty with moral bomb.

+ QE!! I still haven't seen one post to debunk me and the reasons why I explained to bring it back.

[roadkillrobin]

You want a combat system that penalize blobbing. I agree. But you don't need to crapp all over the core mechanics, mastery paths of classes, forcing guilds to split into 6man and kick 3/4 of their members. The subjective opinion of the lead devs here is that warband isn't supose to act as a individual unit but as 4 individul groups. If that was by design then warbands wouldn't even exist in the first place.

Here is how you solve the issue without breaking the design of the game, classes, mastery paths, combat mechanics etz:

Activate friendly fire of AoEs of everyone that isn't a part of THAT warband. This means that anyone in a area of effect thats not part of your warband, friend or foe, will also get hit. This means that you can NEVER run in the lakes with more then 1 warband. And the blobbing ends.

[Penril]

+ QE!! I still haven't seen one post to debunk me and the reasons why I explained to bring it back.

It's too strong and would end up being mandatory, just like CW/RD currently are for many classes (expect those addressed soon too). In fact, I would expect a complete rework to the whole Renown abilities system.

[Tiggo]

You want a combat system that penalize blobbing. I agree. But you don't need to crapp all over the core mechanics, mastery paths of classes, forcing guilds to split into 6man and kick 3/4 of their members. The subjective opinion of the lead devs here is that warband isn't supose to act as a individual unit but as 4 individul groups. If that was by design then warbands wouldn't even exist in the first place.

Here is how you solve the issue without breaking the design of the game, classes, mastery paths, combat mechanics etz:

Activate friendly fire of AoEs of everyone that isn't a part of THAT warband. This means that anyone in a area of effect thats not part of your warband, friend or foe, will also get hit. This means that you can NEVER run in the lakes with more then 1 warband. And the blobbing ends.

FF will be used to troll and same-faction kill. Come on...

[Azarael]

Friendly fire is a hard limit. I'm astonished that you would even suggest it. You know that any system producing FF will be used to troll and same-faction kill. Come on...

[Arbich]

If morale dumps are the problem, would be some kind of morale-immunity (you will only affected by morale damage every 5sec) a solution?

[roadkillrobin]

Then add subtractive renown for killing allies.

You can add a Tag-Tag system aswell were AoEs have no effect unless both alies hit eachother.

I mean there not much atm that prevents people to just cross realm atm and "troll" using the troll argument.

[Azarael]

If morale dumps are the problem, would be some kind of morale-immunity (you will only affected by morale damage every 5sec) a solution?

This, obviously, assumes that they're the problem. They're not. You could break the Morale system and large scale fights would still be just as crap for the same reasons.

[Komode]

If morale dumps are the problem, would be some kind of morale-immunity (you will only affected by morale damage every 5sec) a solution?

This, obviously, assumes that they're the problem. They're not. You could break the Morale system and large scale fights would still be just as crap for the same reasons.

What do you think about Haojin`s suggestion?