Return of Reckoning

Tiggo wrote:how about divine mend becomes an instant cast while using a 2h hammer? would make a bit healing while moving to next target possible and is bound to 2h hammer not affecting heal wp. And as it costs AP it has a bit of tradeoff too.

all in all i like the idea of balancing the grace wp via the 2h status as it wont affect 1h wp at all.

I rather like this, actually. Divine Mend doesn't do much for Grace or Wrath, with the lack of willpower and Salvation mastery, but making it usable on the move would give let us make better use of this. As it is, it's difficult to get past the push-back during combat, and on the run stopping to use this ability can get you killed, making the meager 380 or so heal just bad.

melee healer should melee heal i see no reason why you should have good ranged flash heal also.

The original brief of the class was as a healer which built resource through attacking in melee, not a healer which heals well only through melee attacks. I don't agree with buffing Divine Mend specifically because it's an AP heal, but melee healers may need something to cover for their downtime when not able to strike in melee, which happens pretty often, and making their ranged heals viable provided they have recently engaged in melee doesn't seem like an issue. In the long-term, I would not mind seeing Supplication and Blood Offering blocked for melee healing DoK / WP in exchange for access to equal power casted heals with the buff for engaging in melee.

However, I'm not looking at proposing any further changes until the effect of the detaunt change has been studied, and the question of whether to mirror it to DoK has been answered. This will take a while, I think. I want to be sure that the detaunt change won't eliminate too much of the risk of playing in melee, because if it does, further adjustments may not be justified. It also needs to be seen whether the meta shifts at all. If it doesn't, it means we haven't done enough.

In line with the above, the last thing I want the class to end up as is a Sigmar's Radiance spammer for the majority of its life. 2H should be about playing smart on the front line and skirting between front and mid positions as RF and battlefield conditions dictate. The MAD forcing melee healers to play exclusively as melee for best effect is the primary problem and it's why I wish to see if the detaunt change mitigates so much risk that this secondary problem can't be solved. A future consideration may be adjusting the duration/cooldown mechanics of the AoE detaunt, depending on whether it's a problem or not.

Toldavf wrote:melee healer should melee heal i see no reason why you should have good ranged flash heal also.

For what's it's worth, I think his argument centers on the idea that it won't be a good flash heal for a Melee Healer. It takes a huge amount of RF, and they'll have less Willpower for it than a book healer.

Rebuke wrote:Make Sigmars Radience and Sigmars Fist do spirit damage (ups the damage a little and lessens "MAD" and let Healing Hand (a core HoT ability) be unaffected by the -20% healing tactics. You already took care of the aeo detaunt, which is good. I would advise giving sigmars vision a +10 dodge/disrupt instead of parry but that could be implemented later.

Yeah the problem you have is the two dps / melee heal tactics that reduce your casted heals limit your usefulness to cast anything from range. It is an example of specialization as it should be, because if you could have it all it would be broken. But the change you're suggesting would be absolutely OP.

This is why I suggested decoupling melee healing from damage, if the devs really are bent on changing this spec line. That way you could play it the way you want to, in melee range, using melee attacks, but dealing lower damage with strong healing. This would make balancing the spec line actually doable. I posted details of how it could be done in an earlier post.

Azarael wrote:Adding RF regeneration to hammers is the wrong approach. That's Salvation's gimmick.
If some further means of bettering melee healers is required, look at granting Willpower buffs for hitting things.

Otherwise you would need direct buff, because 2 heals are better than 1 but buffed with tiny amount of willpower and with RF regeneration you can x1,5 amount of heal. Thats the point. I don't ask for +6 r.f. for blue 2h. +2 r.f. will be enough for starters and again it should be placed on 2h for dedicated healers only, not for all of 2h.

ThePollie wrote:Grace actually does not have many abilities to spend RF, in the first place.

Whats the point ? Other heals cost a lot.

Azarael wrote:The original brief of the class was as a healer which built resource through attacking in melee, not a healer which heals well only through melee attacks. I don't agree with buffing Divine Mend specifically because it's an AP heal, but melee healers may need something to cover for their downtime when not able to strike in melee, which happens pretty often, and making their ranged heals viable provided they have recently engaged in melee doesn't seem like an issue. In the long-term, I would not mind seeing Supplication and Blood Offering blocked for melee healing DoK / WP in exchange for access to equal power casted heals with the buff for engaging in melee.

However, I'm not looking at proposing any further changes until the effect of the detaunt change has been studied, and the question of whether to mirror it to DoK has been answered. This will take a while, I think. I want to be sure that the detaunt change won't eliminate too much of the risk of playing in melee, because if it does, further adjustments may not be justified. It also needs to be seen whether the meta shifts at all. If it doesn't, it means we haven't done enough.

In line with the above, the last thing I want the class to end up as is a Sigmar's Radiance spammer for the majority of its life. 2H should be about playing smart on the front line and skirting between front and mid positions as RF and battlefield conditions dictate. The MAD forcing melee healers to play exclusively as melee for best effect is the primary problem and it's why I wish to see if the detaunt change mitigates so much risk that this secondary problem can't be solved. A future consideration may be adjusting the duration/cooldown mechanics of the AoE detaunt, depending on whether it's a problem or not.

Most of good skills are used by cd and you need to constanly spam heals anyway. Idk why do you think 1 aoe detaunt will solve all the problems. When you enter frontline Sorcs are out of its range.

Eathisword, since you are taking active part in this discussion, please, post a link on your today's vid - I don't wanna steal your glory

they could do this before with guard, too.

Vigfuss wrote:

Rebuke wrote:Make Sigmars Radience and Sigmars Fist do spirit damage (ups the damage a little and lessens "MAD" and let Healing Hand (a core HoT ability) be unaffected by the -20% healing tactics. You already took care of the aeo detaunt, which is good. I would advise giving sigmars vision a +10 dodge/disrupt instead of parry but that could be implemented later.

Yeah the problem you have is the two dps / melee heal tactics that reduce your casted heals limit your usefulness to cast anything from range. It is an example of specialization as it should be, because if you could have it all it would be broken. But the change you're suggesting would be absolutely OP.

This is why I suggested decoupling melee healing from damage, if the devs really are bent on changing this spec line. That way you could play it the way you want to, in melee range, using melee attacks, but dealing lower damage with strong healing. This would make balancing the spec line actually doable. I posted details of how it could be done in an earlier post.

Grace is not a pure healing spec though, and it never should be, that is Salvation. Grace is dps with heals as a added bonus. If anything must be buffed, it is the damage.

BrosephStylin wrote: Grace is not a pure healing spec though, and it never should be, that is Salvation. Grace is dps with heals as a added bonus. If anything must be buffed, it is the damage.

I've said this once, I'll say it again now, and I'll repeat it later when this nonsense is said again.


Grace is not DPS. Grace is a healer, first and foremost. It has just as much responsibility with healing as Salvation does. The damage portion of this mastery is because of the increased risk of being on the front line. Salvation doesn't do a lot of damage because it doesn't take a lot of risk.