[PTS] Patch Notes 28/02/2025

[Nekkma]

This is mostly nonsense.

When I ran the number and tried on PTS I came to the same conclusion as the other person: 180HP is about break-even with the current system. The fact that healers need to spec Willpower now since finally it scales somewhat is only logical. Healers should choose a trade-off between high healing throughput and survivability, and can't have the best of both worlds.

My RR82 AM has 800 Willpower, with full armour talis, Futile Strikes, and stills heals like crazy - without Willpower tactic or RR in Willpower. Yet with my other toons, I need to spec closer to 1,000 with the primary skill to be effective.

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

The effect of this is basically to force the use of Discipline-tactic to maintain current healing numbers. Full sov + Discipline with no additional willpower investment gets me to 180 healing bonus on AM. Depending on the general qualities of tactics this will affect classes differently.

Additionally, if the idea is that willpower should matter the willpower buffs should be reviewed. IB/BG having the ability to buff willpower just under 500 is not comparable to other mainstat buffs.

Me thinks these are very good and healthy changes.
I don't know why everyone is so evasive about using Discipline. I have all healers in the game and everyone uses discipline (even now before the announced changes).
Look at best healer in the game Halta (full healing bonus).

IB/BG willpower buff.
I own IB and BG. DP and OF have 50 feet of range. Good luck throwing that buff at a healer.

Whether the change is good or not was not my point (even though I dislike most of the proposed changes in this patch concerning healers).

Should willpower scaling be changed? Perhaps, there are pros and cons imo to change the scaling. Should willpower scaling be changed because dps classes need to soft cap main stat to do damage? Absolutely not. The logic regardning dps is not the same as for healers.

[Farrul]

Me thinks these are very good and healthy changes.
I don't know why everyone is so evasive about using Discipline. I have all healers in the game and everyone uses discipline (even now before the announced changes).
Look at best healer in the game Halta (full healing bonus).

IB/BG willpower buff.
I own IB and BG. DP and OF have 50 feet of range. Good luck throwing that buff at a healer.

I have to agree, dps require these 120/160 stat tactics to perform and so should healers require their 160 disc tactic. Tanks need Rugged 160 toughness etc. On this i will agree with the devs and it is a positive change.

However having said that, i whish they remove these 160 stat tactics from the game all together for every archtype since they effectively leave us with 3 tactics. In fact the Ironbreaker only has 2 tactics to choose from since it also need a grudge regenerating tactic to even function in smaller scale, this imbalance has been been forever.

[Adelmar]

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

They do need the same support as dps though? Just like dps you need proper positioning, just like dps you need guard when focused, just like dps you have to detaunt. dps do make a trade-off between dps and survivability, from gear and talies to mastery to rr spec, what are you even talking about? Hell dps have to further reduce their main stat in order to get armor bypass and any other little survivability tools.

For way too long healers on RoR could ignore their main stat and go full deftard and still pump out good heals, only the regen bubble WE had something similar for dps with witchbrew not scaling with str and it was nerfed into the ground(took way too long as well).

They dont need same support as dps does, thats why tanks always guard melee dps, if they needed same amount of support guard could be on anyone. Armor Bypass is not survivabilty tool. Comparing Regen We to Healer makes no sense. Now that Witchbrew scales with Str it should also Crit but it doesnt, like leonine frenzy. One of the very many nerfs to overall damage RoR has made vs AoR.

Healers and Tanks are support classes, supporting dps to get kills which is kind of the point. RoR has removed shoulder crit talisman, Items with 3-5% Crit have been changed to 1-2%. Boost V-VI ( 9-crit/12-18% Crit dmg) was accessible to all classes in Aor in rr38 influence items, Tier 4 epic wpn quests, Pve etc.

Items with 3-5% Increased+Reduced Armour pene/ReducedCritical hit have been nerfed to 1-2% Like Crit has been. In RoR Renown Crit reduction gives 24% less Crits with 45rr points. Same amount of rr points gives you 14% Crit. 7% Crit Chest+8% 2h Crit staffs,4-5% on 1h's on Lairs + Bastion Stair has been removed. Crit is the only things that is not set in stone and normal crit with dmg/heal is 35-55% Increase without modifiers. So crit in aor = extremely important, thats why Shadow Warrior gave 15% all crit to his group mates and Kotbs got 10% to make it 25% Critical rate increase for the party. Also 100% + Dmg increase morale 2 on SW,Engi and Sqherder. All these three classes got access to Boost V or VI + Sove 7pc Boost VII and they stacked to 19% Crit and 32-38% Critical dmg increase.

Those examples show how aor and ror value crit very differently. In Aor the moment you used Burn Away Lies(or any skill) with Active Vindication Tactic buff + Flanking it always had 65% Dmg increase so "True Timestamping". But also target defensive buffs that were active while using BaL are also taken into account. This makes Cleanse more important and i actually liked that way of handling it more.

Super strong and needed CC/Tactics/Unique Abilities like Crippling Strikes, Runefang, Frenzied Mayhem,Piercing Bite(Affected every ability) Run Away! and many more are not in RoR or are heavily Nerfed versions of them. 50% Aoe HD's taken away, Morale dmg cap added. RoR almost has negated Critical Dmg from existence but notice that there are very many abilities/tactics giving you 25-90% Critical dmg. 50-180% In the early days : D And there are not so many Armour Penetration Skills/Tactics originally. There were things like Black orc double Ws buff 240 that should be returned! and Kotbs/Bg/Wl had 25% Armour Ignore ability but they were all single target.

Keep in mind that RoR added Armour Pene Tactic/Skill to Wl/Wh/We/Sw/Sh/Wp/Dok. All offensive Dps Sove bonuses were the same for melee/range/dps healers. That is the only way to have copy paste set bonuses because they made Sense. Main stat,Wounds,Crit,180melee/range/magic/heal power proc/ 10% Crit/20% Crit dmg as 7pc bonus, 8pc bonuses were personalized.

Last but not least why Healers feel too powerful is because of the GCD change. 8 skills in 10+sec vs 6 skills now in RoR. This obviously hits instant Skills hardest +Heal Dok/Wp because it means 1-2 less grp heals in 10sec. Obviously this also buffs everything that has cast times over 1.5s which is the GCD. This change is what makes Regen more powerful as well. Also 184hp chest and 80hp pocket should be removed, give us 7% Crit chests instead!

I agree with you on this, sadly, the devs have stated years ago that crit needed to be reduced not increased and that they didn't want the game to have crit bloat. No idea why they were so afraid of crit but the reduction of crit/crit damage, the reduction in weapon dps from same level/rr weapons in ror compared to aor, as well as everything you stated, imo, isn't the most healthy thing for this server. Hope this changes at some point but I won't hold my breath.

[Jeliel80]

[/quote]
Me thinks these are very good and healthy changes.
I don't know why everyone is so evasive about using Discipline. I have all healers in the game and everyone uses discipline (even now before the announced changes).
Look at best healer in the game Halta (full healing bonus).

IB/BG willpower buff.
I own IB and BG. DP and OF have 50 feet of range. Good luck throwing that buff at a healer.
[/quote]

On WP/DOK you can possibly run full heal bonus as they already have 3k armor, aoe detaunt and st detaunt.
Also if you play book/chalice in 6 men /small scale you have to, or you won't keep up especially on ST healing.

But if you go full wp talis, heal crit and low defense on cloth heal, you're insta dead when they target switch on you (against proper parties).
DPS having to go cap main stat has nothing to do with healers;
DPS defenses rely on tank guard for a reason, healers in WAR are designed to be mostly self sufficient.
You can't have 4 guards in party after all

As for slotting Discipline with endgame gear, that's standard... but what does it have to do with the rest?
My 2c...

[Lucino]

Feedback om the dps-wp.

First of all, thank you for keeping this game alive and still putting in the time for further development. It is much appreciated.

I will not claim to be as experienced a dps-wp player as some of the other commenters here, but I have been playing it intensely over the last 2,5 - 3 months in bis setup. Both in orvr and scenarios.

Although there are some nice quality of life changes, I do feel that the other changes are too extensive. It is my opinion that the spec is currently undervalued. Not perfect, but a lot better than common perception. Therefor small changes are more warranted than large ones. I also feel that with the removal of Sigmar’s wrath and the changes to hammer of Sigmar, we are loosing some color to the class.

Hammer of Sigmar
To me this is a very iconic ability that fits well with the guy with a huge hammer vibe. The visual animation, sound effect and critical damage are very satisfying. The new version feels very flat in comparison.

Sigmar’s wrath
This ability provides a very nice minigame to the class. In orvr you really need to time well when to use it, because it is high risk, high reward. When you mistime the use, your damage output will be bad. I like this challenge, but the downtime is also a problem.

Long downtime in rvr
Damagewise i think the dps-wp is, in the hands of a good player, on par with WL during their 30 sec damage burst. But we loose out in our downtime. This is mainly a problem in prolonged fights or situations where you have to quickly disengage after the start of the fight (where we pop sigmars wrath). I feel we currently already shine in short duration fights.

Your solution is to provide more consistent damage with less burst. This will probably lower our damage during short duration fights compared to the current situation, but increase our overall damage in longer duration fights. Also kiting will be better in the new situation with disengaging, reengaging.

It is not a bad solution perse, but I feel it is a very boring one. I feel good class design gives your class a minigame to play. What is our aoe minigame now without sigmars wrath?

I was hoping for a solution that would keep or expand the current aoe minigame and also solve the downtime. Not completely remove the minigame.

A gap closer
I feel this is missing on the class. Although I would love a charge, if that is too unbalanced, a 20% snare back on judgement would be very welcome.

Weight of guilt
This is a nice quality of life change, but maybe not that necessary if we get a gap closer.

Divine Impact
Could you perhaps share your thinking behind this ability? It feels like a very odd ability on a melee class to me.

Maybe you could also share your thinking in general about the dps-wp changes? What was your vision? How do you see it working in rvr and how in smaller scale? How does that translate to the changes you made?

Vanquish
Not complaining about getting a big armour debuff, but I am wondering if it might be a bit too much balance wise? The dps changes are yet to come. Is this in advance to those changes? A new role in smallscale for us?

Divine fury
I was hoping you would finally remove this tactic requirement. It feels like a strange design decision that you need to slot this to become viable as dps. If tactics were about adding flavour and experimentation. This “always use” tactic negates that.

Testserver request
Please please please place target dummies near the trainers or vice versa. Having to run back and forth between 2 areas whenever you want to readjust your build for testing purposes adds nothing and is torture.

[Zalgor]

"United in Prayer - New tactic at lvl 31: Prayers give group members within 100 ft of you a 20% chance on hit to increase the power of heals used on them by 25% for 5 seconds. Does not stack with Blessing of Grungni."

So the WP/DoK 25% bonus healing will basically never be up on healers, since you have to hit something regularly to procc it right? And Runepriest/Zealot rituals are no longer reliable ways of keeping Blessing of Grungni up on the group.

Healers have to invest more stat points in willpower to heal the same as before, sacrificing defensive stats. They are going to lack 25% heal bonus on themselves most of the time, all the time with no RP/Zeal in group. It seems like a big hit to healer survivability. Maybe united in prayer should procc on heals as well, so healers have a chance of keeping it up?


I like the fact that rituals are not going to be as powerful for RP/Zealot, it was a bit ridiculous how effective they were for proccing certain tactics. I'm not a fan of only 50 ft range on the new rituals though. In moving fights - or with ranged and melee in your group - it's going to be difficult to get good value out of the new rituals in their current state it feels like. My first impression is that Runepriest/Zealot are going to need something more to compensate for how powerful rituals used to be, otherwise they will be the clear third choice healers.

[Alubert]

Me thinks these are very good and healthy changes.
I don't know why everyone is so evasive about using Discipline. I have all healers in the game and everyone uses discipline (even now before the announced changes).
Look at best healer in the game Halta (full healing bonus).

IB/BG willpower buff.
I own IB and BG. DP and OF have 50 feet of range. Good luck throwing that buff at a healer.
[/quote]

On WP/DOK you can possibly run full heal bonus as they already have 3k armor, aoe detaunt and st detaunt.
Also if you play book/chalice in 6 men /small scale you have to, or you won't keep up especially on ST healing.

But if you go full wp talis, heal crit and low defense on cloth heal, you're insta dead when they target switch on you (against proper parties).
DPS having to go cap main stat has nothing to do with healers;
DPS defenses rely on tank guard for a reason, healers in WAR are designed to be mostly self sufficient.
You can't have 4 guards in party after all

As for slotting Discipline with endgame gear, that's standard... but what does it have to do with the rest?
My 2c...
[/quote]
I understand your concerns but
none of the healers I know trying to increase the healing bonus give up defensive talismans.
They do it by mixing sets, tactics and renown points.
E.g. I have over 1k willpower (buffed) on zealot mixing only two sets. Triu speed cast proc is too strong to give it up (thanks to too strong heal ritual I have it almost all the time, so it has to be nerfed)

[salazarn]

This is also mostly nonsense. This game is designed with a trinity. Having played this game since 2008 I can say that this trinity is mainly interpreted as running a 2/2/2 setup. This means that the dps class is certainly not making a "trade-off" between damage and survivability. The dps classes have 4 other players in the group providing survivability which allow the dps class to invest in offensive capabilities instead of defensive.

Measuring healers, a support class, against the same standard is misleading unless you are suggesting that the game should be played with support classes needing the same amount of support as dps classes. If not, then you are in fact creating a trade-off for healers which dps classes lack.

The effect of this is basically to force the use of Discipline-tactic to maintain current healing numbers. Full sov + Discipline with no additional willpower investment gets me to 180 healing bonus on AM. Depending on the general qualities of tactics this will affect classes differently.

Additionally, if the idea is that willpower should matter the willpower buffs should be reviewed. IB/BG having the ability to buff willpower just under 500 is not comparable to other mainstat buffs.

Great post, succinctly and accurately describes why this change to willpower/healing bonus is unnecessary and poorly thought out.

Witchbrew scaled to 3600 without stat investment it got changed. Weapon procs scaled without investment it got changed. Because it meant they could ignore their mainstat and rely on OP base values to do damage while stacking defensive stats. The current healer values are the same thing

It is so weird to see healers bending themselves backwards to explain why they get to heal without investing in the healing stat. Like there is some sancrosanct law of RoR that healers need to be overpowered otherwise the game falls apart.

It will make the game for more exciting if things were less defensive. It would also allow smaller groups to fight larger if they could blitzkrieg their positions faster without the attrition setting in. I honestly think people will prefer it.

[Jeliel80]

That's my point, it's hard for cloth healers to fully give up defenses, hence the changes on willpower scaling don't make much sense imho.
Also damage in RoR has never been higher that it is right now after the ability rework (mostly for open rvr wb scale).

[Alubert]

Me thinks these are very good and healthy changes.
I don't know why everyone is so evasive about using Discipline. I have all healers in the game and everyone uses discipline (even now before the announced changes).
Look at best healer in the game Halta (full healing bonus).

IB/BG willpower buff.
I own IB and BG. DP and OF have 50 feet of range. Good luck throwing that buff at a healer.

I have to agree, dps require these 120/160 stat tactics to perform and so should healers require their 160 disc tactic. Tanks need Rugged 160 toughness etc. On this i will agree with the devs and it is a positive change.

However having said that, i whish they remove these 160 stat tactics from the game all together for every archtype since they effectively leave us with 3 tactics. In fact the Ironbreaker only has 2 tactics to choose from since it also need a grudge regenerating tactic to even function in smaller scale, this imbalance has been been forever.

You're right. Tactics with statistics are powerful.
This is my chosen (buffed, liniment, tactic, generally 100% uptime and sacrifice CP tact)
Nonetheless, I am waiting for the devs to remove Deamonclaw and give back the chosen old CS.

chosen stats

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