ORvR rework+ DOOMSDAY : All the truth

[Hargrim]

Log off and play TWW2

But seriously, there is no solution. You can get the sheep jump through hoops and piss about with any system you want, they will still huddle up and go WC to WC in praag for 3 hours.

I'd like to see the promotion of guilds a bit more to offer the kind of playstyle the server needs but you see on Order right now even that promotes zerging like a **********.

It's a tough situation.

I will, from Saturday, already preordered .

Well, I'm asking because you meanly mentioned 'zerg events' when in reality this would happen as soon as we open Dungeons, Fortresses and Cities. Pop goes up and zergs pops around.

[Acidic]

From my point of view. Zerg fighting is for those that like winning a fight more than the fight itself, as wam said. Zerg higher chance of success , the worst is that Zerg breeds Zerg . If one side has a Zerg like beast the othe follows suit to compete. Painful but natural.
It's rare that a Zerg gets taken down by smaller groups (Happens when Zerg is in auto pilot)
But the timer lock issue of the AFK gang having to move to leach is ok, they moved that is good. Last time in Prague there was at least a full wb destro camped at ms most of the time not moving, not defending just leaching . At least they would get little reward , would prefer the SC solution of banning warning etc but that's not so easy.

[Wam]

I appreciate the work you guys do and I look forward to testing some of the new changes, you are looking for a improved system... we want a improved system also, so as testers are giving you some of our experiences so far and comparisons.

I think you touched on some of the main issues with the supply ratio(ranking/deranking & infinite Cannon spam) was the main problem and lack of intercept to choke a keep...

There are pro's and con's no matter what you do, under funnel/rank system issue was the con's outweighed the pro's... under 3 minute bo timer (in reality it was 30-50 sec caps) the pro's outweighed the con's... It created plenty of movement and open field fights, yes sometimes it was a bit zergy... but what do you call yesterday when there is 3-4 warbands sitting inside a keep in TM if not a zerg just one that's not moving because lack of incentive to move.

Under the old 6 minute bo timer... the con's outweighed pro's because it was too zerg friendly and not enough splitting... one blob of multiple warbands could swarm a zone with not much effort. So it was generally a case of who has most numbers wins by default.

[Hargrim]

So it was generally a case of who has most numbers wins by default.

It is in 99% of situations and edge cases are, well, edge cases.

Also, I just don't agree with the assumption that timers add anything of value to the campaign.

[Karast]

So it was generally a case of who has most numbers wins by default.

It is in 99% of situations and edge cases are, well, edge cases.

Also, I just don't agree with the assumption that timers add anything of value to the campaign.

They give a target for movement. If you see a low on timer on a BO, or see a BO ticking down you might stay to take it when it unlocks, or push to try and reclaim it.

1-2 minutes here and there, this bo and that bo, does actually do a lot for spreading people out when they are not being wiped into a multi warband zerg.

Splitting them up creates opportunities for smaller fights. When the timers are so short you don't stick around as long, and it is impossible to reclaim in the same way so you are better off waiting for the enemy to leave and reclaim it after since there is no realm penalty for not defending it. If people don't need to stay and defend bo's in fear of long lock timers than they just stay blobbed up.

[Hargrim]

But you can do all of the above without timers. You know where enemies are and which BO is empty - no need to wait, just move your butt right this moment.

[Collateral]

But you can do all of the above without timers. You know where enemies are and which BO is empty - no need to wait, just move your butt right this moment.

Yes that's true. But the problem then is that you have to stand on it if you don't want ninjas to get it back almost instantly. And as I said, my personal problem is just that, standing on bos, waiting for someone to come and get it. It might be a 6 man, a whole enemy population, or something in between. It's sort of a gamble you then take. Do we wait here to maybe get some interesting fights, or will we get zerged like every other time. We had npcs doing that boring job of standing for us before. And what happens if everyone has that mindset, stand on bos and wait for the enemy? Who is going to move anywhere? This happens in low pop zones where people just go to afk on bos, knowing very well there are enemies on other bos, but they couldn't care less. In more populated zones, it's the organized groups that promote movement, why? Because we didn't form a full warband to stand on a bo, waiting for the enemy to come to us. We actively search for fights, cuz that's why we play. And coming to a bo killing 2 pug wbs that stand there afk is not terribly interesting after a while.

[Orodret]

@Wam
I agree on everything you wrote. Game has become boring this days.
@Why new BO system is bad
Because of freenown. Just that. As long freenown exists ppl will leach it, doesn’t matter if it’s 1 or 1.000 per tick.
@Why system with caped Bos was better
Because you could give ppl renown for caping flags (witch is good when population numbers are low and give ppl reason to go the lakes even then).
After they get there purple numbers they could move, try get another BO, in a mean time oposit side could steal your BO, so you had to go back and recap it. In a mean time, you could face some enemy and get some fights. Witch means you had some game play in rvr.
Ppl move in lakes = more chance for fights to happen. Ppl sit on flags = less chance for fights to happen.
Personaly, I don’t care about loot, sige, city instances… I play this game for epic fights like only warhammer can have, and nothing else. Loot will come, renown will come.
Make fights games GOAL. Not loot, or siege, or BO’s, or zone locks. Fights. Win.
@So… how do we do dat?!
Reward players for fighting. For killing, for healing, for tanking. Give them renown and loot for doing there chosen path (of gameplay).
Give them a reason to want to be in groups instead of wanting to play solo. That means don’t split renown and loot betwean party, but give everyone even rewards. WH always suffered because of this. This will also make balance isues less of a problem too, becouse you wouldn’t be trying to balance game around xy types of gameplay.
Give players reasons to get into guilds, to form teams. You can do this by giving guilds staff to do, claiming keeps (I think I saw somewhere this is comeing, good!), but also with simple mechanics like if you are in guild you get more money per kills (pve and pvp) or crafting bonuses, or renown/xp boosts, etc…
BOs, keeps, city instances (when they are introduced), those should be mechanics to get ppl into fights. Not the sole reason to play the game.

[Hargrim]

But you can do all of the above without timers. You know where enemies are and which BO is empty - no need to wait, just move your butt right this moment.

Yes that's true. But the problem then is that you have to stand on it if you don't want ninjas to get it back almost instantly. And as I said, my personal problem is just that, standing on bos, waiting for someone to come and get it. It might be a 6 man, a whole enemy population, or something in between. It's sort of a gamble you then take. Do we wait here to maybe get some interesting fights, or will we get zerged like every other time. We had npcs doing that boring job of standing for us before. And what happens if everyone has that mindset, stand on bos and wait for the enemy? Who is going to move anywhere? This happens in low pop zones where people just go to afk on bos, knowing very well there are enemies on other bos, but they couldn't care less. In more populated zones, it's the organized groups that promote movement, why? Because we didn't form a full warband to stand on a bo, waiting for the enemy to come to us. We actively search for fights, cuz that's why we play. And coming to a bo killing 2 pug wbs that stand there afk is not terribly interesting after a while.

You get more by killing people on other BOs or flipping the zone.

[GodlessCrom]

Yeah afk BO system is quite unfun IMO. Cant convince PUGs to not just afk leech, so leads to unfun scenario of half the zone being afkers on facebook while the zerg rotates bos and murders them.