Playing destro myself (most of the time) and M4 of tanks is just way to strong compared to other moral abilitys. Also if we talk about M4 can we please talk about the normal healer M4 worst moral ingame. It was nerved because people rezed warbands with it which was pretty strong but now you rez somebody with it only to see him die again because of rez illness (+here amazingly buggy people affected by it won't be able to stand up, get rezed or respawn).
Back to ID
It gives structured (bo and chosen) groups an enormous advantage against semi structured groups. I mean the difference is so hugh it's ridicullus. If you don't go with the best setup and you have to fight against such a grp you better be good.
Don't even mention a pug against such a grp no chance. Matches like this end with 0 kills on one side which to be honest isn't fun for any of the sides. Well there are certainly people who like unfair, unchallenging matches aka well I brought a gun to a knife fight.
Besides all the points I have brought up for a nerv of ID (with moral push) is kinda the thing on destro which puts the balance atleast for premades pretty close so chancing ID would need also fixes to certain order classes.
+I know we don't balance on pugs but giving such huge advantages so that the result is always roflstomp should also taken into consideration. I mean premades already have a lot of things to stomp a pug but I think matches should never end so onesided that the other side loses with zero kills.
Overarching balance changes
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- peterthepan3
- Posts: 6509
Re: Overarching balance changes
these 'huge advantages' are available to all players who make a group though... if ID/moral push were to be nerfed, then there are several nerfs order (read: kotbs) would need in exchange. as it stands now, i think there's a healthy balance between the two (with kotbs being slightly op, and obvious things such as BG needing a few more tools/bonuses)
people dont lose with 0 kills because of m4, 99% of the time.
people dont lose with 0 kills because of m4, 99% of the time.

- roadkillrobin
- Posts: 2773
Re: Overarching balance changes
The game has pretty much always been, Destro got better morale pump vs order got better AP management and buffs/abillties. Nerfing ID would be a much larger blow to Destuction then it would be for Order and the amount of tweaking that would need to be done on Order to ballance this out would probobly be equal to redesign classes from scratch.
Just my toughts tho.
Just my toughts tho.

- magter3001
- Posts: 1284
Re: Overarching balance changes
That's assuming that destro are currently on even footing with orderroadkillrobin wrote:The game has pretty much always been, Destro got better morale pump vs order got better AP management and buffs/abillties. Nerfing ID would be a much larger blow to Destuction then it would be for Order and the amount of tweaking that would need to be done on Order to ballance this out would probobly be equal to redesign classes from scratch.
Just my toughts tho.

The game is definitely by no means perfectly mirrored or balanced but it is in better shape than it was or could be.
I don't think ID (morale not inevitable doom :3) needs a nerf. You need m4 to use it which can take a long time if you don't have the tactics for morale gain... and even then you spent a tactic point just to be able to use your morales on a more regular basis. If anything the problem isn't ID... it's the tactics that increase morales.
If you had no such tactics... no one would even consider ID to be a problem because of the rarity of it.

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Grelin of Magnus/Badlands

- roadkillrobin
- Posts: 2773
Re: Overarching balance changes
magter3001 wrote:That's assuming that destro are currently on even footing with orderroadkillrobin wrote:The game has pretty much always been, Destro got better morale pump vs order got better AP management and buffs/abillties. Nerfing ID would be a much larger blow to Destuction then it would be for Order and the amount of tweaking that would need to be done on Order to ballance this out would probobly be equal to redesign classes from scratch.
Just my toughts tho.
The game is definitely by no means perfectly mirrored or balanced but it is in better shape than it was or could be.
I don't think ID (morale not inevitable doom :3) needs a nerf. You need m4 to use it which can take a long time if you don't have the tactics for morale gain... and even then you spent a tactic point just to be able to use your morales on a more regular basis. If anything the problem isn't ID... it's the tactics that increase morales.
If you had no such tactics... no one would even consider ID to be a problem because of the rarity of it.
I'm NOT purposing a ID nerf, i think it's pretty critical that Destro both have their morale gain tactics and ID being intact for realm vs realm ballance.

Re: Overarching balance changes
With regard to cleanse, people seem to be missing the point that the method used on live where a random debuff was cleansed was probably the most balanced method of implementing cleanse in the game.
The current method where the oldest debuff is cleansed clearly favours the attacking toon who can easily hide the best debuffs by using them after the 1st or 2nd debuff in a sequence.
The proposed methods where the healer gets to choose what they cleanse clearly favours the healer.
The method used on live where a random debuff was cleansed did not favour either the attacker or the healer. People found the randomness upsetting because they couldn't control what was happening. But that was the point of it. Neither the attacker nor the healer had control of which debuff was cleansed, and that is what made it balanced.
The current method where the oldest debuff is cleansed clearly favours the attacking toon who can easily hide the best debuffs by using them after the 1st or 2nd debuff in a sequence.
The proposed methods where the healer gets to choose what they cleanse clearly favours the healer.
The method used on live where a random debuff was cleansed did not favour either the attacker or the healer. People found the randomness upsetting because they couldn't control what was happening. But that was the point of it. Neither the attacker nor the healer had control of which debuff was cleansed, and that is what made it balanced.
Last edited by Annaise16 on Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Overarching balance changes
I voted the crit thing. but before changing things there, two things need to be implemented not to make further major changes nessecary, that is, implementing of making crit talismans and ability to spend renown on FS and TB's. but this is only my opinion, one of thousands...
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-Rolphph is here!
-Rolphph is here!
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Re: Overarching balance changes
why dont they just start BY BALANCING THE CLASSES EQUALY , LIKE A PERFECT MIRROR ?
Re: Overarching balance changes
lilsabin wrote:why dont they just start BY BALANCING THE CLASSES EQUALY , LIKE A PERFECT MIRROR ?
Probably because you'd lose the flavor of the class from a lore/narrative standpoint.
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