DoK/WP with book/chalice...

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

Is Kiss of Death uncleansable by WP?

Should be an ailment, have never seen it being cleansed by wp.

If it is uncleansable by WP i guess it might be balanced then. WE has an easier time getting to the WP than an IB anyway. At least in the initial clash where the WE can stealth and jump the WP, while on the other hand you can see the IB coming at you from a mile away. Also, Inspiring attack has a 5 sec CD, while Kiss of Death is a proc.

I don´t know, just pointing that out. If you guys think Kiss of Death is an acceptable outgoing HD counter for WPs and balanced with IB/Doks, then neither side would benefit more than the other one with a range decrease on WP/Dok heals.

Still, not sure if reducing their heal range is a good solution (don't remember if i agreed with it on earlier pages, won't bother checking, if so then i guess i changed my mind now).

Silly idea that could be completely silly but think about it and just let me know how silly (or not) it is: what if cloth healers could cast group heals while moving, but the cast times were increased? Gather round (shaman) takes 2.5 secs while stationary. What if it could be cast while moving but it instead took 3.5 secs or something like that?

WE cant switch targets to just debuff. Not even to mention, wasting a finisher or that the debuff lasts 5s.
While snb IB is not even contributing dmg and can switch targets as he wishes.

Your idea with the grp heal would actually prohibit st healers in large scale pvp.

[Shadowgurke]

So by making DoK/DoK weak to IB, doesn't that mean that maybe DoK/Zel is better? Isn't that a good think? Now what if we do the same for WP/WP? (Read: Change debuff type of BG)

[Penril]

WE cant switch targets to just debuff. Not even to mention, wasting a finisher or that the debuff lasts 5s.
While snb IB is not even contributing dmg and can switch targets as he wishes.

Your idea with the grp heal would actually prohibit st healers in large scale pvp.

Kisses don't proc on finishers. They can proc on all WE attacks, unlike WHs. So even if cleansed it can be reapplied pretty fast (no CD).

As for my suggestion, i warned you all it could be silly. It's just that the more i think about it, the more i agree that cloth healers should be looked at (instead of nerfing WP/Dok). Even though i feel cloth healers are ok, fact remains that Dok/WP will always be better when fighting against largest numbers. And i could be wrong on this, but i wish all 6 healers could be as viable when zerg busting.

[noisestorm]

So by making DoK/DoK weak to IB, doesn't that mean that maybe DoK/Zel is better? Isn't that a good think? Now what if we do the same for WP/WP? (Read: Change debuff type of BG)

Rather equalize the "what can be cleansed by which class" along the board.

I just find it strange that WP can cleanse outgoings, but no incs, while its inverse for the DoK.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

So by making DoK/DoK weak to IB, doesn't that mean that maybe DoK/Zel is better? Isn't that a good think? Now what if we do the same for WP/WP? (Read: Change debuff type of BG)

BG can have a 30s outgoing healdebuff with 0 cd, we better not change just the type.

Dok/zel takes the ib a few more seconds to cover his debuffs, with earthshatter we already have the first one before even reaching the target. On the other side 65f nerfs wp/rp when the bg is healdebuffing. Not sure if it is a win.

As it is now, if we only change the range, it will be order biased.

[DefinitelyNotWingz]

WE cant switch targets to just debuff. Not even to mention, wasting a finisher or that the debuff lasts 5s.
While snb IB is not even contributing dmg and can switch targets as he wishes.

Your idea with the grp heal would actually prohibit st healers in large scale pvp.

Kisses don't proc on finishers. They can proc on all WE attacks, unlike WHs. So even if cleansed it can be reapplied pretty fast (no CD).

As for my suggestion, i warned you all it could be silly. It's just that the more i think about it, the more i agree that cloth healers should be looked at (instead of nerfing WP/Dok). Even though i feel cloth healers are ok, fact remains that Dok/WP will always be better when fighting against largest numbers. And i could be wrong on this, but i wish all 6 healers could be as viable when zerg busting.

Woops, my bad.
Ever seen a good rp in RoR? We play 3 dps lately and against good rps it is impossible to kill sth guarded.
RP is absolutely fine. Shaman too. We will see how shatter confidence will affect him.

[Morf]

Without reading all 24 pages...for me changing all dok/wp heal range to 65 ft would be the fix, they are suppose to be frontline healers which is why they have such good armor values, such good def tactics and so low cast times.
May not work but i think its worth thinking about before deciding to make radical changes to dok/wp.

[Penril]

Without reading all 24 pages...for me changing all dok/wp heal range to 65 ft would be the fix, they are suppose to be frontline healers which is why they have such good armor values, such good def tactics and so low cast times.
May not work but i think its worth thinking about before deciding to make radical changes to dok/wp.

Not sure about all. I would start only with their Group Heal and work from there, adjusting as needed. If it is a disaster, we roll back.

Time to test things after all, right? Alpha and all that...

[ThePollie]

Without reading all 24 pages...for me changing all dok/wp heal range to 65 ft would be the fix, they are suppose to be frontline healers which is why they have such good armor values, such good def tactics and so low cast times.
May not work but i think its worth thinking about before deciding to make radical changes to dok/wp.

Not sure about all. I would start only with their Group Heal and work from there, adjusting as needed. If it is a disaster, we roll back.

Time to test things after all, right? Alpha and all that...

While not approving or disapproving of nerfing casted heals, I definitely oppose nerfing the range of melee healing. It's already gimped enough.

[Penril]

Without reading all 24 pages...for me changing all dok/wp heal range to 65 ft would be the fix, they are suppose to be frontline healers which is why they have such good armor values, such good def tactics and so low cast times.
May not work but i think its worth thinking about before deciding to make radical changes to dok/wp.

Not sure about all. I would start only with their Group Heal and work from there, adjusting as needed. If it is a disaster, we roll back.

Time to test things after all, right? Alpha and all that...

While not approving or disapproving of nerfing casted heals, I definitely oppose nerfing the range of melee healing. It's already gimped enough.

I don't think anyone has suggested nerfing their melee heals. Pretty sure Morf wasn't including melee heals in his "all dok/wp heal" comment.