Overarching balance changes

[Daknallbomb]

if cleanse remove the newest than u just need one magus with perma aoe dot spam to make healdebuff uncleanseble not a good idea

mayb let remove random and give 3 sec more cd on cleanse

[Jaycub]

you can already do that now? just preload with magus dots and they act like cover just in the opposite direction.

Yet magus is still considered garbage in 6v6?

You also don't need a class like magus to cover up important debuffs.

[Vigfuss]

Yeah i think having cleanse remove the newest debuff would open up too many gimmicky counterplays.

[Daknallbomb]

was just an example with magus .
Every char can make healdebuff uncleanseble than if it removes newest . just make healdebuff and than spam one other dont think its a great idea

[porkstar]

For pots, remember we don't have liniments or special type pots yet, so it's impacting the use of a lot of buffs since everyone is using power+armor pots right now.

The real problem with buff stacking I think is the the values are totally out of whack. You have classes like BG who have a toughness debuff, but it's single target and within 10% of the value of the chosen debuff... and the chosen debuff (aura) is a buff and debuff all rolled into one that's constantly on, costs no GCD and can't be removed.

It's asinine imo that single target buffs/debuffs are the same value as AoE ones that requires less input and have no counterplay etc...

Like

[Bozzax]

If cleansed removed the newest, than it would be WAY better in terms of reactionary/skillful play.

Take for instance our old 6 man was IB/Knight/WP/RP/Slayer/WL, theres only 1 HD in there, and all our damage dealer classes deal in curses except slayer. Even so we can realibly cover that HD with the current system, especially if you utilize the RP buffs for a quick ailment.

However if it removed the oldest the doks or any healers could time, or react based on calls in TS or whatever and drop a cleanse spam and we wouldn't have any HD on a target for another 10 seconds.


This is also an example of how group cleanse, or just cleanse in general shapes the meta comps. We swapped out IB for SM not just because SM deals more damage and is honestly just way better, but having another class using hexes (something doks cleanse) helps us keep more important debuffs on specifically stuff like shatter limbs which just melts off in our old comp.

No playing in a premade I know we'd cover it up with passives plus train dropping debuff cover at the exact same timestamps. You would never be able to react and if you were lucky enough we'd likley run x2 HDs every 5s making HDs even more effectice then they are currently.

[bloodi]

I think you guys are forgetting the good things that come from cleansing the first debuff that was on the target.

Its simple, if it does that, it requires you to never open with your best debuff, this comes with more benefits to the gameplay that you may think it does.

[Jaycub]

It would at least add some kind of depth I think.

You can unload all your good stuff 1st and cover it with **** after (opposite of what you do now), but this at least gives healers a chance to get those good debuffs with a cleanse off the bat, where in the old system they have to go through trash debuffs no matter what.

Maybe you go in and do that, and then the next burn you do the opposite and make the healers spam cleanse at the begging and make them waste it on trash... it just seems like there is more going on with that system than the one we have now.

[bloodi]

Well, you can do that now too?

[Bozzax]

2 cleansers vs 4 debuffers + passives really?