Return of Reckoning

Why don't we nerf Chosen because Coryphaus plays it? Jk.

Joan wrote:Meanwhile, why don't we discuss nerfing Shatter Limbs to the ground? :>)

Make it single target and slightly longer cooldown

Libra wrote:Why don't we nerf Chosen because Coryphaus plays it? Jk.

Tbt i personally think that destined for victory should be looked at cause the ability is kinda ridiculous simultanously though i think it would be interesting if SM's got a mirror tactic since their is nothing like it on order

Xaun wrote:

Joan wrote:Meanwhile, why don't we discuss nerfing Shatter Limbs to the ground? :>)

Make it single target and slightly longer cooldown

give it the chop fasta treatment

Coryphaus wrote:that sounds like problem with KOTBS

For sure the knight needs a nerf

I'd remove Encouraged Aim - its far too powerful to be attached to an (undefendable) aura, be always on at no cost and have benefits outside of group

Give focused mending to SM instead (attached to a stance might be too unreliable update-wise to do in the emulator so perhaps a buff on a cooldown?)

Banish confidence needs to be 5ft range like it was changed to late in Live

az already said that it was going to be 5ft, its not 5ft here?

Coryphaus wrote:that sounds like problem with KOTBS

The overall debating in this thread is between two styles of thinking. It's honestly, the debate we have on these forums in a lot of threads. Taking any specifics or classes out of the discussion, lets boil it down to what is really going on.

There are two different overarching balance philosophies being discussed.

One group of people sees a certain variety of classes as overpowered. They believe that these classes should be adjusted downwards to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

The other group of people sees a certain variety of classes as underpowered. They beleive that these classes should be adjusted upwards to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

This is the reality we currently face, especially as it pertains to this thread. Balancing is always a fine line between making gameplay better or worse, but I will add my opinion (once again) on this subject matter.

I am a firm believer in that Mythic developed a variety of underpowered classes, broken/useless abilities and tactics, and a lack of parity through a variety of balance avenues (archetpye vs archetype, class vs class, realm vs realm). Therefore, what I would like to see out of the balance in Reckoning is all classes being tweaked to where they are all well rounded classes with a variety of viable specs. I think, on average, many classes in this game are underpowered or have too many worthless tactics/abilities and are pigeonholed into 1-2 viable builds.

I'd much rather see every class being adjusted upwards (of course, some nerfs and downward tweaks are always necessary but we are talking about overall balance philosophy), to make every single class a well rounded, viable option with a variety of interesting builds and tactics that can suit different playstyles and needs.

The main concern with such an approach is increasing TTK to such a point that combat becomes "too quick". This however, can be alleviated by not just buffing the DPS options available. If by bringing every class up to level of the strongest classes, you raise TTK too high, you then can adjust defensive options to bring the TTK back in line with where it feels "right".

I have always argued against the other balancing philosophy. That classes should be brought down to the lowest common denominator because some classes have had poor design in the first place.

So as it pertains to this discussion.

I don't think there is a problem with the Knight. If the Knight is considered stronger than the Chosen, the Chosen should be brought up to Knight level (please note, I am not saying that I believe this, I do not know enough about the Knight/Chosen archetype to be able to fully say this with confidence). If the Knight and Chosen are both considered better than the "combo" tanks (BO/SM), than the BO/SM should be adjusted upwards, as well, etc...

It is easier to nerf a few classes and make them worse and one dimensional than it is to properly tweak and balance every class. But just because something is easier doesn't make it better. In many cases, the "easy way out" makes everything worse. We as a community should be trying to analyze and tweak the classes to give them a variety of viable abilities/tactics/power levels so that they are all fun and viable to play in a variety of situations.

Regarding Chop Fasta, imho give it to BO as a mirror of Whispering Wind and give Choppas something else

Whispering Wind
No AP Cost
Insta-Cast
20.0s cooldown
You release two swift blows that deal 109 Spirit damage each, interrupting any building attack and will Silence your target for 4 seconds. The winds then aid group members within 100 feet for the next 10 seconds by decreasing the cooldown of abilities used by 5 seconds

Chop Fasta!
Costs 45 AP
Insta-Cast
2m cooldown
Group members within 100 feet are inspired by the way you shrug off the blows, for the next 20 seconds any ability used by your groupmates will cool down 5 seconds faster.

Afaik, the devs are unable to create new skills, all they can do is modify some values in current ones.

foof wrote:

Coryphaus wrote:that sounds like problem with KOTBS

The overall debating in this thread is between two styles of thinking. It's honestly, the debate we have on these forums in a lot of threads. Taking any specifics or classes out of the discussion, lets boil it down to what is really going on.

There are two different overarching balance philosophies being discussed.

One group of people sees a certain variety of classes as overpowered. They believe that these classes should be adjusted downwards to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

The other group of people sees a certain variety of classes as underpowered. They beleive that these classes should be adjusted upwards to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

(Snip for brevity)

On the whole I agree, and changes should be made wholistically with the overarching meta in mind

That said, at endgame I find it ridiculous that (due to these tactics being tied to always on, undefendable, no cost/cool down auras), that a knight simply stand still and can simultaneously

1) increase all enemies chances to be critically hit by 10% for all allies
2) buff his group mates chance to crit (dps & heal) by 10% (stacking with #1)
3) increase his groups healing by 15%

This is aside from any actions/skills he may actively use

Why would you ever consider taking any other tank over (at least 1) knight?
What other class brings so much benefit to the group (on either side?)

Xaun wrote:

foof wrote:

Coryphaus wrote:that sounds like problem with KOTBS

The overall debating in this thread is between two styles of thinking. It's honestly, the debate we have on these forums in a lot of threads. Taking any specifics or classes out of the discussion, lets boil it down to what is really going on.

There are two different overarching balance philosophies being discussed.

One group of people sees a certain variety of classes as overpowered. They believe that these classes should be adjusted downwards to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

The other group of people sees a certain variety of classes as underpowered. They beleive that these classes should be adjusted upwards to be balanced with the rest of the classes.

(Snip for brevity)

On the whole I agree, and changes should be made wholistically with the overarching meta in mind

That said, at endgame I find it ridiculous that (due to these tactics being tied to always on, undefendable, no cost/cool down auras), that a knight simply stand still and can simultaneously

1) increase all enemies chances to be critically hit by 10% for all allies
2) buff his group mates chance to crit (dps & heal) by 10% (stacking with #1)
3) increase his groups healing by 15%

This is aside from any actions/skills he may actively use

Why would you ever consider taking any other tank over (at least 1) knight?
What other class brings so much benefit to the group (on either side?)

This is a fair point. I don't know enough about Knights and Chosen to have a real opinion on the matter. Some nerfs are certainly going to be necessary, or some skill swapping.