[Warrior Priest] - Grace

[peterthepan3]

To be honest it should be made to parallel the DOK's version, i.e. damage pumping and healing defensive target. It's an integral part of Sacrifice DOKs, and something that makes them pretty viable for burst healing a defensive target back to 100% - when coupled with Divine Assault/Rend Soul.

The whole idea of WP/DOK is that they must deal damage to heal, and such an ability should not be left lacking on the order counterpart.

[ThePollie]

To be honest it should be made to parallel the DOK's version, i.e. damage pumping and healing defensive target. It's an integral part of Sacrifice DOKs, and something that makes them pretty viable for burst healing a defensive target back to 100% - when coupled with Divine Assault/Rend Soul.

The whole idea of WP/DOK is that they must deal damage to heal, and such an ability should not be left lacking on the order counterpart.

Disciples of Khaine are offensive, Warrior-priests are defensive.

Devour Essence attacks targets close to an ally to provide healing and increased damage.

Sigmar's Shield reacts to threats to provide healing to an ally.

This is fine. It keeps them unique, fits with their respective classes. They have their advantages and disadvantages.

Devour Essence heals nothing if the target can't get within range to use it. Sigmar's Shield heals nothing if the target isn't being attacked.

Could we add an internal cool down on the rf cost per heal? .5-1 second?

I've been told it's possible. It is what I am suggesting, regardless. At least, a cool down on how often the heal can activate, regardless of how often the target is being struck.

[Genisaurus]

guard ... doesn't stack with a detaunt

In hindight, a lot of outcry and complaining might have been averted had we started with this fact first. Not even sarcasm, I'm making a personal note that all future balance discussions should start with an overview of the underlying mechanics.

[Tiggo]

guard ... doesn't stack with a detaunt

In hindight, a lot of outcry and complaining might have been averted had we started with this fact first. Not even sarcasm, I'm making a personal note that all future balance discussions should start with an overview of the underlying mechanics.

i think this was hardly known, because many people (me included) thought that detaunt was a debuff on the target not a buff on oneself.

[SilverWF]

I can understand if BOTH WP and DOK will get melee detaunt (like WH, WE, Choppa, Slayer, Mara and WL have)
But.
You gave 100 feet AOE detaunt and only to WP!

Seriously? Where it was discussed? In this thread? I found only 1 post from that man (honestly, didn't tried to search well - just last few pages before patch), who even didn't know that classes well.

10% parry base
50% Heal debuff easily achievable compared to a 25% crappy one
Much better burst DPS with the Sacrifice devour essence

This change should be welcomed by both DOKs and WPs alike; that melee healers are being looked at! It isn't going to fix everything, but its a step forward in the right direction.

WP:
10% block penetration
10% parry buff and it's really easy achievable
11 points is more easy than 9 points? Go read builder again.

About burst: 1. this is not burst, but BS. 2. Care to show us how to take Devour Essence and healdebuff tactic at the same time with AOE detaunt?

[TenTonHammer]

same

[Azarael]

guard ... doesn't stack with a detaunt

In hindight, a lot of outcry and complaining might have been averted had we started with this fact first. Not even sarcasm, I'm making a personal note that all future balance discussions should start with an overview of the underlying mechanics.

I assumed that given the nature of our project, posters experienced with live would know very well how the damage reduction mechanics worked.

I also explain this on the very first page, so I guess it serves as punishment to anyone who came into the topic without properly reading our breakdowns

10% block penetration

Only you could try to say that this is better than 10% parry (or anything but a waste )

[ThePollie]

Seriously? Where it was discussed? In this thread? I found only 1 post from that man

(honestly, didn't tried to search well - just last few pages before patch)

Read the damn thread.

Seriously. If reading enough to be properly informed is that difficult, then don't start spouting about balance.

On topic - There was word earlier of possibly getting rid of Grace of Sigmar, which buffs Sigmar's Radiance by upgrading the 50% lifetap to 75% and the 306 base heal to about 380 or so. With that gone there would be a tactic gap in the mastery tree. With that and the fact we have no version of Brute Force(128 strength tactic) of our own, as Discipline(128 willpower) does not help us at all, I've been considering other options.

At first, I thought about a Brute Force mirror, but I think there may be better options. Possibly a stat split, something like 64/64 strength/toughness, instead of a larger, singular increase. Strength and weapon skill, wounds and toughness, etc. Plenty of combinations the Devs can look into, if they would like.

[Genisaurus]

Seriously? Where it was discussed? In this thread? I found only 1 post from that man

(honestly, didn't tried to search well - just last few pages before patch)

Read the damn thread.

Seriously. If reading enough to be properly informed is that difficult, then don't start spouting about balance.

On topic - There was word earlier of possibly getting rid of Grace of Sigmar, which buffs Sigmar's Radiance by upgrading the 50% lifetap to 75% and the 306 base heal to about 380 or so. With that gone there would be a tactic gap in the mastery tree. With that and the fact we have no version of Brute Force(128 strength tactic) of our own, as Discipline(128 willpower) does not help us at all, I've been considering other options.

At first, I thought about a Brute Force mirror, but I think there may be better options. Possibly a stat split, something like 64/64 strength/toughness, instead of a larger, singular increase. Strength and weapon skill, wounds and toughness, etc. Plenty of combinations the Devs can look into, if they would like.

Again, as a disclaimer, I have not played a WP, so take this with a grain of salt.

I think a Brute Force mirror or a split tactic like you're suggesting would thematically belong in the Wrath tree. As such, maybe it could replace Intimidating Repent outright. This would take the option for a Targetted AoE Detaunt away from book healers completely, but would leave the option open to all DoKs. In effect, this shifts the balance scale a little in the direction of the DoK - not so much that the DoK is better, just a little bit in that DoKs have a survivability option that WP would lack.

If the Grace of Sigmar tactic were to leave, it would be by replacing the default numbers for Sigmar's Radiance. As I've said before, a 50% lifetap is poor from a mechanic standpoint. Even with the base heal, it implies that the design of the ability is more about the damage than the healing, which is backwards. But if you got rid of that tactic, for any reason, I might suggest a tactic that made autoattacks a tiny lifetap as a replacement. Maybe heals your defensive target for 25% of autoattack damage. Now, if that were going to be mirrored to the DoK in the future, there's going to be a tradeoff between them doing more autoattacks, but for less damage, and maybe the %'s will need to change for both classes.

[ThePollie]

Again, as a disclaimer, I have not played a WP, so take this with a grain of salt.

I think a Brute Force mirror or a split tactic like you're suggesting would thematically belong in the Wrath tree. As such, maybe it could replace Intimidating Repent outright. This would take the option for a Targetted AoE Detaunt away from book healers completely, but would leave the option open to all DoKs. In effect, this shifts the balance scale a little in the direction of the DoK - not so much that the DoK is better, just a little bit in that DoKs have a survivability option that WP would lack.

If the Grace of Sigmar tactic were to leave, it would be by replacing the default numbers for Sigmar's Radiance. As I've said before, a 50% lifetap is poor from a mechanic standpoint. Even with the base heal, it implies that the design of the ability is more about the damage than the healing, which is backwards. But if you got rid of that tactic, for any reason, I might suggest a tactic that made autoattacks a tiny lifetap as a replacement. Maybe heals your defensive target for 25% of autoattack damage. Now, if that were going to be mirrored to the DoK in the future, there's going to be a tradeoff between them doing more autoattacks, but for less damage, and maybe the %'s will need to change for both classes.

Replacing the Wrath tactic would be fine. It would still be within cross-spec reach of Grace, if we thought to make use of it. The lifetap on Autoattacks I'm not so certain about. At least not at 25%, though perhaps not at all. Even with a crit, I average 450 damage on an autoattack. 25% of that would be only 112 health. After mitigation and with the slow speed of great hammers, I'd much rather ignore the tactic in favour of Leading the Prayer, which has the average of providing me with an extra 272 health every second, and the potential maximum of 1600 health with a lot of luck.

Edit- Furthered my math. A 25% lifetap on Autoattacks would average me 26 health per second, just under 38 with Hastened Divinity. Leading the Prayer, in a 2-tank/2-dps/melee healer/ranged healer group averages me 544 health a second. Both assume every party member is active and playing accordingly. Disables and inability to target foes will affect it, but my point stands.