Return of Reckoning

TenTonHammer wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 1:57 pmY'all didn't like the conditional checks that NB has? You could of just done something using your client controll to address it. Not like people can't just use custom buffhead lists to watch for immunities and the like

As someone who knows a fair bit about the client and how the addon system works, this is not possible without breaking the UI (not just addons, but the main UI too). Access to the conditional checks (buffs/debuffs on self and opponent and state of your abilities) is core functionality used to display the buffs on you, enable/disable the buttons in general based on things like Rage, etc. Regarding client control, this is mostly in the form of 1) modifying client data files, or 2) making binary patches to the EXE. The first is limited by what data is actually available to edit, and the second one of the hardest things to do in software engineering, especially when you don't have the original source to try and figure out what the 9mb of assembly instructions is actually doing to begin with.

I get that people are upset, but "disable the conditional checks" is not a possible solution based on how the game, main UI and addons actually work.

cairlaith wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:12 pm

zumos2 wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:05 pm

perche wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 1:37 pm I don't even want to imagine how black orc and ironbreaker players must be with this patch, for some classes the nb ban is irrelevant, but for other classes it is a drama.

No for some players it is a drama. Out of principal I never used the NB cheater addon and I can play BO/IB fine, just like all other classes.

Do you use enemy addons? bufffhead/daoc? potionbar and its macros? tether/teather? they can be call kinda cheat also...

They are not cos they dont do actions instead of you, just give you an info but still you should read it and react.
While nb react instead of you. WE with nb and flank checks will always be more effective than WE without nb

calling nb after 13 years a cheating addon is nothing more than ignorance or trolling.

perche wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 1:37 pm

abezverkhiy wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 1:20 pm

perche wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 1:00 pm it's a shitty patch that will kill almost half of the server's population, good job if you think so and congratulations to all the clappers.

The more I think about it the more I think it is a shitty patch too.

There are classes that do not need complex checks to produce good output.

Mara's Guillotine for example, one of the hardest hitting skills in the game - you see health bar is below half - you hit it, you crit it, you kill it. Job's done, a very skillful play. You do not need NB and can jump on the forums laughing.

Taking example of the opposite situation. Witch hunters attacks from behind. Battle is like a crazy dance party - everybody is moving non-stop and this second I am hitting from behind, next second I am not. And this goes on and on and on. You really need NB here. Otherwise your best damaging attacks are not being used.

These are just examples of two classes but clearly one of them has just became very much different after this shitty patch.

Exactly, I for example play with an engineer with the grenade path, to kill someone I need to throw my 5 dot damage first, taking into account that I have a high turret multiplier (recently nerfed), then use the rifleman path skills and repeat the rotation hoping that no one heals him or runs away, I wish I had the damage of a sorc that in a 3 second rotation takes the same life as me in 10-15s.
I don't even want to imagine how black orc and ironbreaker players must be with this patch, for some classes the nb ban is irrelevant, but for other classes it is a drama.

I'm a marauder main who plays BO and IB also. All those characters are wearing bis stuff from City. I only play smallscale and never needed NB to successfully play those classes (any classes, to be exact). After the patch I am feeling as great as I felt on Thursday.

zumos2 wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:18 pm
I don't know about potionbar, but all the other stuff you mention does nothing more than display information. NB is something completely different, it's making choices for you and can even do checks to help it do so.

But keep the salt coming, imagine a game actually being somewhat difficult OMG

Let me explain you; try to punt or kd someone without using Buffhead, just try it without see your target's immunities. Try to switch ur guard without enemy click event, show us how fast you can do Let's guard someone without mark him, just control range between u and ur guardie without tether or enemy... Yeah They are realy different, but all of them give advantages, am i wrong?

agemennon675 wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 12:40 pm

kaela wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 12:01 pm

Spoiler:

People complaining here about nb bann need to chill and realize they really don't need ALL of the skills in their book to play WAR successfully. Actually, focusing on the main skills fitting yours and your groups playstyle and the propper timing of those skills (buffhead is still here to help you with that) is more than half of the battle.
/two cents

This is not true for all classes. For example BG skills are all unique and each one have different and unique effects. If I remove some of them from my hotbars it just means that I am not using the class to its full potential. I am using 3 full hotbars for it and I cant fit all abilities there using. 1-2-3-4-5-6 / shift-123456 / qert zxcv / shift-qertzxc / ctrl-12345 already bound. Its tiring to play BG compared to stg like chosen because while a chosen can just activate a toughness aura BG needs to re-apply the skill every 20 secs

there is a key-bind to switch actionbar (default is shift+1-5 i think) so you can sort your skills accordingly on 4 actionbars and switch to them when needed. The fifth bar can be userd for mount/pots/meme/etc and you still have alt+ and/or strg+ modifiers for moral and such
not to forget q,e,r,f,x,c (if using wsad) in easy reach. Do have BG "too many" skills? I agree 100% on that but thats a matter of balancing and not handing over your decision making process in fights to an addon.

Nameless wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:23 pm
They are not cos they dont do actions instead of you, just give you an info but still you should read it and react.
While nb react instead of you. WE with nb and flank checks will always be more effective than WE without nb

Just imagine, you don't use Buffhead addons, can you determine if your target has immunities or not among 15 debuff and buff? or you don't use tether or enemy, can you check the range between yourself and ur guard/guardie? Ohh true, nb does actions instead of you? then who check range between you and ur guard/guardie?
it was not buffhead that determine if your target has immunities or ur dots or guard etc etc instead of you? Why don't you do it by yourself, dont use buffhead....

cairlaith wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:26 pm

zumos2 wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:18 pm
I don't know about potionbar, but all the other stuff you mention does nothing more than display information. NB is something completely different, it's making choices for you and can even do checks to help it do so.

But keep the salt coming, imagine a game actually being somewhat difficult OMG

Let me explain you; try to punt or kd someone without using Buffhead, just try it without see your target's immunities. Try to switch ur guard without enemy click event, show us how fast you can do Let's guard someone without mark him, just control range between u and ur guardie without tether or enemy... Yeah They are realy different, but all of them give advantages, am i wrong?

If they didn't give advantages no one would use them, the question is about what kind of advantages do you find acceptable and which ones not. The addons you named still only display information, which I and pretty much everyone finds acceptable. The base UI of WAR is also garbage. NB does something very different. It chooses which abilities you cast and with conditional checks it can do so very well. In certain instances even better than humanly possible.

zumos2 wrote: Sat May 29, 2021 2:34 pm
If they didn't give advantages no one would use them, the question is about what kind of advantages do you find acceptable and which ones not. The addons you named still only display information, which I and pretty much everyone finds acceptable. The base UI of WAR is also garbage. NB does something very different. It chooses which abilities you cast and with conditional checks it can do so very well. In certain instances even better than humanly possible.

Ok then, i don't find acceptable buffhead that let everyone can determine so fast if i have immunities or not, if i have guard or not... So what will happen now? Block Buffhead? i don't find acceptable enemy guard or tether/teather that show guard with any visual element... Block them also?

blocking NB... about time. thanks devs