Scenarios- pre mades being douchebags

[peterthepan3]

Best post of topic.

[bwdaWAR]

Spoiler:

Can you step back and listen to what you are complaining about? Take out all the fallacious arguments and invalid premises and you are literally crying because you can't win playing the way YOU want to... When all the options and avenues to win are available to you right now. But your rebutle is "Well I don't want to play that way" only problem is . That is the way the game is designed to work. See the little radio button labeled "Join as party" ? That's the way the game was built. It was built to play as either, and the major flaw with your proposal to separate the two queue options is that it would divide and already SMALL community thus increasing queue times and making the gaming experience even less pleasurable. Every facet of this game is not going to be designed around your liking. Domt forget that quite often a 6 man pug paired with a 6 man premade in a full scenario can do quite well vs even a double premade on the other side. It's not always 12 pugs vs double premade. You might just have bad luck queueing at times and get a bad draw. You might actually enjoy teaming up with guildies and running a premade with team speak to coordinate your strategies. I mean being forced to pug with nothing more than the chat window to coordinate??? What a nightmare.

The game is not a static, unchanging avatar of perfection. Also, I'm going to point it out that WAR, even the live version, went to great lengths to at least try to support random teaming up and generally balance things out, which is kind of necessary in a PvP-oriented game: it's only enjoyable on the long term if there's a reasonable challenge. An obvious example is the bolster system which, while not perfect, still means a pretty huge difference for lower ranked characters (while still leaving higher ranks and better builds with enough advantage to worth the effort). Just think about what PvP would be like without the bolster.
The open groups, for Open RvR, scenarios and public quests (back on live at least), the scenario queue button available right when a new character is made, all show that the game was meant to cater to the players that don't want to spend much effort in group organising. Now I'm not going to say that these players are in the majority since only the devs can even estimate that, but I'm sure there are a lot of players like this. If the game abandons these players, they will likely abandon the game eventually.
Most importantly, this is not the black-and-white issue apparently a lot of people like to see it as. It is very much possible to improve the matchmaking quality (how exactly is debatable, but right now it's pretty much nonexistant), while still giving an advantage to premade groups who have a strict control over group/class composition, improved communication methods and likely higher ranks and better gear in that tier. In fact, even the premades would benefit from it, since there'd be more fighting and less standing outside the enemy warcamp, waiting for the scenario to end.

[peterthepan3]

Dude.. why is it so hard to ask guildies/in advice for a group? In t1-t2 sure, but t3 people should get into habit of grouping. Its THE most vital ingredient to War's PvP.

[rmpl]

Dude.. why is it so hard to ask guildies/in advice for a group? In t1-t2 sure, but t3 people should get into habit of grouping. Its THE most vital ingredient to War's PvP.

It's not as hard as deleting your own toons.

[peterthepan3]

Dude.. why is it so hard to ask guildies/in advice for a group? In t1-t2 sure, but t3 people should get into habit of grouping. Its THE most vital ingredient to War's PvP.

It's not as hard as deleting your own toons.

Another unknown jumping on the bandwagon. Top keks!

[Stinkyweed]

[Adell]

Dude.. why is it so hard to ask guildies/in advice for a group? In t1-t2 sure, but t3 people should get into habit of grouping. Its THE most vital ingredient to War's PvP.

It's not as hard as deleting your own toons.

[jdelta2]

Just to throw in 2 cents from a casual player, I que solo as time/work permits and that's one of the things I loved about live is that you had the option to jump in and jump out without commitment for some quick pvp via scs. Nobody should be fooled though as this game was designed to encourage grouping and the better coordinated group should win and be rightfully rewarded. I disagree on reading both suggestions of tossing out either premade or solo ques and have confidence the devs will find some kind of middle ground to accommodate both sets of player's interests.

Pertaining to the op yeah it's no fun being farmed at spawn, and that's one of the reasons I believe why a large chunk of players left live eventually. There was a good amount of suggestions already made to help remedy those situations and I think implementing some will help this community to grow.

[drmordread]

Spoiler:

Can you step back and listen to what you are complaining about? Take out all the fallacious arguments and invalid premises and you are literally crying because you can't win playing the way YOU want to... When all the options and avenues to win are available to you right now. But your rebutle is "Well I don't want to play that way" only problem is . That is the way the game is designed to work. See the little radio button labeled "Join as party" ? That's the way the game was built. It was built to play as either, and the major flaw with your proposal to separate the two queue options is that it would divide and already SMALL community thus increasing queue times and making the gaming experience even less pleasurable. Every facet of this game is not going to be designed around your liking. Domt forget that quite often a 6 man pug paired with a 6 man premade in a full scenario can do quite well vs even a double premade on the other side. It's not always 12 pugs vs double premade. You might just have bad luck queueing at times and get a bad draw. You might actually enjoy teaming up with guildies and running a premade with team speak to coordinate your strategies. I mean being forced to pug with nothing more than the chat window to coordinate??? What a nightmare.

Exactly, same points I've made quite a few pages back.
This is going to a be a lengthy post, but be sure that I have my best hopes not to insult anyone and would try to give my most positive opinion on this very sad matter in the very opinionated thread.

WAR was, in my opinion, one of the good examples of great era of MMOs, where it was all about the ingame interaction between the people playing it.
Where you as a solo player could achieve little but as a group/guild/realm you can and will come to end game, if you are willing to cooperate, to combine your efforts, to unite as a team. You could even trace this in the early WAR podcasts where mythics tell you that even scenarios and PQ granted you victory points towards your realm.

It was so meaningful in almost every aspect that people this still crave for the same feelings they've experienced. The games were flawed, imbalanced, unequal but extremely engaging and fun to play regardless, some could even say that being so imperfect made the games so great. Where you had no way to change and just went with it, winning and losing in the process, even battling it out with the mentioned by OP douches in constant ingame and forum bantz.

But now those days are gone and most multilayer interactions have switched and era of MOBAs has come, where you as a player is the centre of universe, for fulfilling your role on the battlefield in a very competitive environment but without a common goal aside winning one match, that would be forgotten right after another.

And with that came the notion that pugging is the way it should be played, forever changing the gaming world. You as a player became somehow entitled to achieve the things, that only dedicated groups could, by only pressing matchmaking button and god forbid the game match you against some who even dares to queue together.

But sadly such the achievements are more often than not felt empty, and if you are willing share them with your ingame friends - you will be looked down upon by the majority of the "true" solo gamers by "cheating" and "not playing the game properly" and "ruining others fun", flavourful game flaws should be removed to make everyone seem "equal", but sadly grey and dull. Must be a generation thing, idk, where the idea that some should never even lose.

People like that are now the majority, their voices are loud to change the minds of the developers, who more often then not knew better what was best for the game. So even the games of the past should be remade to fit them. Just look at plain old WoW and how it lost all of if uniting glory of the vanilla-wotlk slowly degrading into that lfr-garrison empty monstrosity we have today.

I've experienced all of this on both the sides of the argument, pugging and running a premade in a lot of games for the last 10+ years, but I don't expect people to believe me and don't even hope to change anyones mind on the matter.
To sum it up, my hopes are that RoR development team, who could only have my best praises, seriously, would not go in the same direction, when war becomes meaningless grind of epics for a bunch of trendy loners but instead revives the glory of WAR of the old days.



*some spelling fixes*

THIS....THIS....THIS.... best post in all of thread

[mursie]

People like that are now the majority, their voices are loud to change the minds of the developers, who more often then not knew better what was best for the game.

Not that I disagree with your points - but the fact that DOTA 2 and League have many many thousands of active streamers and gamers, that it has transcended into e-sport, and that WAR is now a private server with a population cap of 1000, would seem to indicate where gaming enjoyment by the masses has flown to.

Yes, teamwork is a great thing. Having a game that can take individual players and collectively allow them to be more powerful when cooperating as a team is a great thing.

The issue is - when the game mandates that you can not be even remotely competitive unless you have five other friends online at the same time playing a specific dedicated archetype, it is a flawed game. As an mdps, queing an sc without a guard and healer is beyond laughable currently.

Now, the player certainly can start becoming the most social butterfly in the world and look to build groups - sure, this can happen. But, a well designed game doesn't require that you as an individual are a social butterfly. Games today are designed to matchmake a pvp encounter to distribute equally the participants. How? by putting equal dps / heals / tanks on each side. This, at a minimum, allows the participants an equal opportunity or chance to play the pvp encounter. It doesn't guarantee equal results (one side will lose after all).

In the current state of the game - this doesn't exist. Many of us are here because we have a history with WAR. But god forbid you are a new player joining this game by chance after seeing it somewhere in an article. The experience of queing up... at lvl 22, without a group, against an almost certain premade... and then repeating that for however long it takes for you to develop friends/relationships in game along with gear - may god have mercy on your soul.

Oh yeah - and building relationships is also a bit tough when you're a lvl 22 nobody doing jack all in sc's getting farmed. You'll likely just be called a "leecher" from some pro.

Dark Days