Return of Reckoning

And BW/Sorc

Ungrin wrote: Name one dps that has everything the mara has.

Armor debuff
Heal debuff (with leech)
Toughness debuff
Wounds debuff
Disarm
50% crit tactic
Armor ignore tactic
20% crit chance tactic
AP Tactic
dual wield
Ignores enemy armor pen
Execution
Self Heals
Knockdown
Pull

In Medium Armor.

Talk about stupid, eh?

Just naming the pull alone, limits me to one option. You're so biased, haha. This is basically like saying "Warriors in WoW are so OP! Name another class that has Charge, rage mechanic, Heroic Leap, and Last Stand!

Yes, talk about stupid indeed

Razid1987 wrote:

Ungrin wrote: Name one dps that has everything the mara has.

Armor debuff
Heal debuff (with leech)
Toughness debuff
Wounds debuff
Disarm
50% crit tactic
Armor ignore tactic
20% crit chance tactic
AP Tactic
dual wield
Ignores enemy armor pen
Execution
Self Heals
Knockdown
Pull

In Medium Armor.

Talk about stupid, eh?

Just naming the pull alone, limits me to one option. You're so biased, haha. This is basically like saying "Warriors in WoW are so OP! Name another class that has Charge, rage mechanic, Heroic Leap, and Last Stand!

Yes, talk about stupid indeed

So you're going to ignore everything else and pretend like that disqualifies my points?

Yeah, thought so.

Ungrin wrote: So you're going to ignore everything else and pretend like that disqualifies my points?

Yeah, thought so.

Yeah, I am, smartass, because your logic is idiotic. Let me show it, since it's so hard for you to understand:

"Name one tank that has everything the Black Orc has.

Armor debuff
Stat steal for entire group
Toughness buff
Wounds buff
AP drain
Morale removal tactic
Toughness ignore tactic
20% crit chance tactic
AP group buff
Armor buff
3 knockbacks
AoE knockback
Knockdown
Spammable AoE snare / disorient tactic

In Heavy Armor."

By that logic, the BO sounds amazing, but it's considered one of the worst, if not THE worst, tank in the game. You can justify ANYTHING by just shouting random abilities. It proves nothing! I tried to explain this to you, but it apparently didn't get through. You HAVE to compare it with the other classses, let alone it's mirrior. And EVEN then, it can still look amazing on paper, but actually be **** ingame. It's the class's damage/healing, survivability, utility, the utility's synergy, AND the synergy with the other classes, that dictates if the class is good or bad. It's a spectrum of aspects, not just a single one, like you imply.

This all just boils down to the fact, that all the classes are different. Demanding other people to name a class that is similar to another, in a game where NO classes are similiar, is just retarded. Plain and simple.

Even if you take all this aside, people also whine about WLs. Some people would say that the problem is not JUST with the Marauder (I don't even mind the WL atm). But you're of course just gonna say the people whining about the WL are clueless, or some biased bs like that. Shall I make a list for all the amazing things the WLs can do, too? How much do you think that would proof?

Razid1987 wrote:

Ungrin wrote: So you're going to ignore everything else and pretend like that disqualifies my points?

Yeah, thought so.

Yeah, I am, smartass, because your logic is idiotic. Let me show it, since it's so hard for you to understand:

"Name one tank that has everything the Black Orc has.

Armor debuff
Stat steal for entire group
Toughness buff
Wounds buff
AP drain
Morale removal tactic
Toughness ignore tactic
20% crit chance tactic
AP group buff
Armor buff
3 knockbacks
AoE knockback
Knockdown
Spammable AoE snare / disorient tactic

In Heavy Armor."

By that logic, the BO sounds amazing, but it's considered one of the worst, if not THE worst, tank in the game. You can justify ANYTHING by just shouting random abilities. It proves nothing! I tried to explain this to you, but it apparently didn't get through. You HAVE to compare it with the other classses, let alone it's mirrior. And EVEN then, it can still look amazing on paper, but actually be **** ingame. It's the class's damage/healing, survivability, utility, the utility's synergy, AND the synergy with the other classes, that dictates if the class is good or bad. It's a spectrum of aspects, not just a single one, like you imply.

This all just boils down to the fact, that all the classes are different. Demanding other people to name a class that is similar to another, in a game where NO classes are similiar, is just retarded. Plain and simple.

Even if you take all this aside, people also whine about WLs. Some people would say that the problem is not JUST with the Marauder (I don't even mind the WL atm). But you're of course just gonna say the people whining about the WL are clueless, or some biased bs like that. Shall I make a list for all the amazing things the WLs can do, too? How much do you think that would proof?

Because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, kid.

The marauder gets every single debuff and buff a DPS could want with NO drawbacks. His mechanic is Stances, which is hilarious because he hardly if ever needs to go into his AOE / no armor pen stance. The WL isn't even close to the marauder in terms of how overpowered it is. Anyone with half a brain can see why. The WL's disarm, pull, KD are all on a pet with **** AI. The Marauder is basically the mirror of THREE classes.

Do you understand how overpowered that is? Have you ever fought a marauder 1v1? It's insane. Not to mention that their survivability makes them God-Tier in a proper group. They have absolutely no drawbacks. It's literally the best dps in the game, that can self heal, has a crit tactic (both multiplier and chance ((WTFFF?????)) and on top of it if it's gaurded it's almost impossible to kill in a good group.

I mean you've literally got to be brain dead to even compare a WL to a marauder. Ask any good player even on destro side. The WL is **** compared to mara.

"OH MY GOD! BUT THE WHITE LION HAS POUNCE!!1!1!1!"

Yeah, which they have to usually overextend to use. Do you know the difference between a WL pounce and marauder pull? The marauder brings the opponent TO HIMSELF. The White lion has to POUNCE TO THE TARGET.

COMPRENDE BRO???

You. Are. Stupid.

Mara definitely has an edge against other classes. It's ok to admit it. Looks bad to refuse to acknowledge something so obvious. We won't hate you for playing it, but to deny this much is sad. lol

beerzerker121 wrote:Mara definitely has an edge against other classes. It's ok to admit it. Looks bad to refuse to acknowledge something so obvious. We won't hate you for playing it, but to deny this much is sad. lol

Exactly, I'm not going to be like "Oh the slayer is underpowered bro, buff that ****."

The thing is really good, even though it has a rage mechanic (yeah a debuffing mechanic, who would've thought), to just deny it makes you look dumb.

Even if they don't NERF the mara, at least bring other classes in line with it.

Ungrin wrote: Because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, kid.

Sigh, you think calling me "kid" makes you somehow seem superior to me? Why do you think I'm a kid? You have no basis for such an assumption. Even if I was a kid, so what? That makes no difference and is complete irrelevant. Ageist...

Ungrin wrote:The marauder gets every single debuff and buff a DPS could want with NO drawbacks. His mechanic is Stances, which is hilarious because he hardly if ever needs to go into his AOE / no armor pen stance. The WL isn't even close to the marauder in terms of how overpowered it is. Anyone with half a brain can see why. The WL's disarm, pull, KD are all on a pet with **** AI. The Marauder is basically the mirror of THREE classes.

Ah, the good ol' "If you can't see that, you're an idiot"-argument. So hard to debunk. I agree with you, that the Marauder is a strong class. No one is denying that, lol. But to say that it's because of "This list of abilities" is just dumb. I pointed that out to you, and now you are just jumping to an entirely different argument, completely ignoring the point I made. Such a great way of arguing.
To say he doesn't need to use his stances is a flat out lie. And even if it's true that he didn't need them, to then be naming them as an advantage (Which you have done more than once), is just dishonest at best.

Ungrin wrote:Do you understand how overpowered that is? Have you ever fought a marauder 1v1? It's insane. Not to mention that their survivability makes them God-Tier in a proper group. They have absolutely no drawbacks. It's literally the best dps in the game, that can self heal, has a crit tactic (both multiplier and chance ((WTFFF?????)) and on top of it if it's gaurded it's almost impossible to kill in a good group.

Do you understand that you don't have to talk down to me? I have a Marauder myself, and have played both sides of this war. Unlike you, I'm not biased. I acknowledge that Marauders and WLs are both in a good place right now, but to only talk about the Marauder is just a testiment to how biased you are. Especially when you have Sorcs/BWs being 10 times more trouble, for the balance of this game. I can beat a Marauder 1 on 1 with my Knight. So by your 2nd grade logic, Knights are even more OP.

Ungrin wrote:I mean you've literally got to be brain dead to even compare a WL to a marauder. Ask any good player even on destro side. The WL is **** compared to mara.

Yes, comparing two classes that are mirriored is OBVIOUSLY idiotic. And thanks for implying I'm a bad player, when you have never fought against me, seen me fight, or have no idea about my skill level. You are so condescending, it's disgusting.

Ungrin wrote:"OH MY GOD! BUT THE WHITE LION HAS POUNCE!!1!1!1!"

http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... nce#p72650
http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... &start=160
http://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum/ ... nce#p73503

Three threads I found in 5 mins that debate the topic. Obviosuly, it's not as black and white as you think...

Ungrin wrote:Yeah, which they have to usually overextend to use. Do you know the difference between a WL pounce and marauder pull? The marauder brings the opponent TO HIMSELF. The White lion has to POUNCE TO THE TARGET.

Guess you don't know what Fetch does, huh?

Ungrin wrote:COMPRENDE BRO???

You. Are. Stupid.

I never called you stupid. You have in this threat alone called me a bad player, brain-dead, stupid, kid, and that I have no idea what I'm talking about. You are condescending as f***, and name calling is against the forum rules. I suggest you change your attitude VERY QUICKYL, or I might be forced to report you...

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beerzerker121 wrote:Mara definitely has an edge against other classes. It's ok to admit it. Looks bad to refuse to acknowledge something so obvious. We won't hate you for playing it, but to deny this much is sad. lol

I feel like you are talking to me, but I don't recall ever denying that Marauders are strong. If you actually just read what I said, I just pointed out how stupid Ungrin's arguments were. Nothing else...

Razid, White Lions are not in a good place, not by a long shot and Az already confirmed an incoming buff.

Backrow do you have a link for that confirmed buff?

Balancing WL to Mara is silly because they aren't mirrors. The WL mirror Squig Header pet mechanic and the SW mirrors the Mara stance mechanic. Mara get extra stuff to balance that they don't get a pet and SW get extra stuff that Squig Headers don't get to balance they don't get a pet.

Coming on the forums to derail an AAO thread with Marauder whine is sad. I don't see Order running to the forums to talk about the 2-3k festering arrows you hypocrite.