A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

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Fuklebark
Posts: 35

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#21 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:47 am

lilsabin wrote:what if i want to be a tanky dps , like the fury warrior or the ret paladin ?
Sadly, it's goes against the planned class mechanics. That's the MDPS's job. The way classes are designed in WAR is that each archetype has one thing they're very good at, but also an achilles heel to balance it out.

The idea here is to create teams where everyone had a specific job, and when played to their class's strength, each person works with the other members of their team and accomplish a goal.

You can do it if you really want to, but pound-for-pound, you will never rank up with a dedicated DPS class. AS some people have stated above, in some situations it's actually okay to do (for example, in a tank-heavy scenario group) but on the whole, sword and board is the best way to play a tank in WAR.
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mirrorblade
Posts: 95

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#22 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 11:25 am

At organized wb and fight in rvr you need to a full defens and your cc is very important (tank wall very useful with a bomb group).
If you are in a little group in rvr or sc not the best full def spec and gear.

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CarlistRieekan
Posts: 237

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#23 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 12:46 pm

Spoiler:
Fuklebark wrote:So I've been leveling my BO Arseface up successfully as Path of da Toughest, and I've been noticing an increasing trend, to which I will attempt to pose a counter-arguement against. A point to note is that this is written from a Destro perspective; If you"re order, just swap out X for Y, same rules apply.

I've been noticing lately the vastly increased number of people who play tank classes, ignore many of the basic tenants of tanking and play their class as essentially a melee dps (nothing but +str gear and a 2-hander)

While I won't deny the benefit of having a few players enact this strategy to be a more survivable front-line, I am noticing that these guys often throw themselves too much in harm's way and don't try to protect the squishies or for that matter contribute to winning the scenario.

So what I will post here is my strategies for playing a highly defensive tank effectively in PvP. And as with all guides, take these with a grain of salt. Each is valid as stated, but to make it yours you have to find how it fits into your own playstyle and outlook.

1 - You are the anvil, not the hammer.

I really can't stress this point enough. It is the key to playing a defensive tank in PvP. You have to be comfortable with letting other people take the glory most of the time, and if you're an impatient player, this won't work for you.
What I mean by 'being the anvil' is this: You're not going to do DPS, so don't really try. Your strength lies in your staying power, so use that to your advantage. Be an enabler for your team, so support functions rather than trying to kill the enemy. In the following, I will attempt to expound upon this point.


2 - Play a lot of defense
This can be a boring job if nothing is happening, and yes, you will get less xp than the brawl-heads, but defense is absolutely vital, and by securing the objective/flag from the enemy, you do a job that everyone bitches that someone should do, but no one ever does, and by doing so contribute towards a bigger xp bonus at the end for everyone.

- When in capture scenarios, call out incoming, and make sure you KB or at least regularly lovetap anyone trying to capture a flag or objective, make them waste their time trying to kill you while reinforcements arrive to back you up.

- when in "grab the thing, hold the thing" scenarios, hang out with the guy holding the thing when the enemy get close (even if he's another tank), and make sure you have him under guard if possible. Use your high HP to his/her advantage.


3 - Pick a healer and defend them.

You don't have to be attached to them at the hip, but too many scens are lost because everyone runs into the brawl and leave the healers behind to get picked off by the WLs or WHs. By defending the healers, not only are you guaranteed to get more heals from the grateful healer, you're enabling the other classes to have more staying power as well and brawl it out as they're inevitably going to.
Also, at the beginning of a scenario, put yourself in a group with that healer before the group fills up, so that way you can use Guard on them and benefit from their group heals and buffs.

Edit: I forgot to mention a small point on this, you may not want to be specced or geared too much towards Toughness if you plan on being a Bodyguard (as I call this tactic). Some Str and WS will help you pick off the enemy MDPS while your high wounds provide the healer with protection. Because the dmaage done to the healer can accumulate quickly, it's best to mitigate the dmage done to them (and yourself) with KBs, Snares and outright fast killing.

5 - Don't hyperfocus (learn when to let go)

Once again, you are not going to do DPS, so don't try. I know it's very tempting to try to kill that SW or WH out on the edges of the main fight, and you inevitably will be able to, but the problem is that in the time it takes to do that, other things may happen that you could have prevented if you had been paying attention. Your healers may be getting killed, there may be a lone WH trying to ninja the flag or objective, or there may be a healer on the outskirts of the fight slowly turning it in the enemy's favor (see below).
If you want to **** with the guys on the outside, snare them, then either herd them or knock them into your DPS. Don't waste precious time trying for that solo kill while the tide of battle is turned behind your back.


6- Separate the enemies healers from the rest of the pack.

As much as I wish my fat green ass could block LOS for healers, it can't. But by utilizing terrain, I can often knock them back to a location where they either don't have LOS, or it will take them a good amount of time to get back up (i.e. off a cliff or bridge). I've also noticed that once you get healers away from the pack anyhow, they are more inclined to run.
The tricky part is when they are in large groups. There's no easy way to break them up, or keep them away from the brawl, all you can do is focus on one and try to get him away from the others, or knocked conveniently in front of your DPS.
Word of warning here, as I mentioned above, beware of hyperfocusing. It's hard for a tank to out-dps a healers heals anyway, and as a defensive spec it's outright impossible for you. If it starts to look like you can't make a difference, let it go and see where else you might be needed. Once the brawl-heads finish off the guys in front of them, you can be sure the healers will be next.

7 - Be the guy that gets the thing that does the stuff.

In capture the thingie scenarios (Mourkain temple, Stonetroll crossing, Tor Anroc, etc.) try to make sure that if at all possible, you're the one that gets it. With your higher HP and toughness you can hold it better than anyone else out there.
Also as a note for when you do have it. Try to stay close to the battle, but still somewhat removed from harm's way. Good healers will stay with you and keep you healed while you hold the thing, but if you're half a map away from everyone else, you're robbing them of the heals that healer could be tossing their way, plus the renown the healer could be getting by doing so.

8 - Keep 2 sets of gear.

Trying to kill guys in PvE with nothing but +toughness and wounds gear is probably the most boring experience known to man, short of the late Bob Ross. Do yourself a favor and keep an alternate set of gear for PvE that is mostly +str. You'll be thankful for it when solo grinding, believe me.
Also, be sure to switch your tactics to more offensive ones too, you don't need 5 zillion toughness to take on a mobs, even a couple at a time.

I'm sure there's more that I can't think of right now, but I think that you should get the picture. Just remember, that your are the anvil, not the hammer, and try your best to be as good as you can for everyone's sake. Because if you don't pick up the slack from all the dumbasses, who will?


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Yea, though I walk through the lake of RvR, I shall fear no Order, for I'm the goddamn pope. My sword and my shield, they comfort me, they removeth the head from the shoulders of mine enemies. For swords are meant for swinging, my shield blocketh bullets.

Surely slashing and stabbing shall follow me all the days of my life,
but I dwell in the fullness of metal, forever.
-Fullmetalpope
Just to add my two cents:

1 - Actually you should be both anvil and hammer. If a tank is in the first line, there is a chance he gets focused instead of MDPS and his or her Arm, Resists, Tgh and W soak some bursts (it is not the case when attacking hardened veterans, but there are people who can panic and unload their precious abilities to the first target available).

2 - It depends. As Agrot pointed out you shouldn't be focused the defense just for the sake being more tanky. You have to find balance between offensive and defensive abilities and masteries. Being full turtle does not work for each class and for each meta.

3 - It is nice idea, but you should consider guarding MDPS, since they spend much more time in a scrap. I like your note there, though!

5 - Yes, yes and yes.

6 - Yes. Applies also for tanks with floating guards.

7 - But of course. As for artifacts - whether to focused on them or not might depend on meta of your party.

8 - Well... I used to have more sets, but the current one is sufficient for that little PvE content I do. So generally yes, but understanding your tactics may do the similar job.
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Luth
Posts: 2840

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#24 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:11 pm

OP is tl;dr.
I just go on with slotting FO (cause damage > all) and don't guard/aoe taunt (cause makes no sense). :geek:

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Coryphaus
Posts: 2230

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#25 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:33 pm

lilsabin wrote:switch guarded target , loooooooooooooool , this is the funniest thing i have ever read... people dont even use guard to its full benefit . second , exept for the veteran of live , lots of people come from other mmorpg , where u could be a warrior and outdps a rogue or be a healer and have more defense utility then a warriro class... thats why certain person will go IB 2 handed or BO 2 handed . Not everybody want to be a tank , but lot s of people want to play "TANK" class in dps mode , because they are appealing , and this is where this game failed . If a BO or IB want to go dps spec , he should be as effective as a WE , WH , or wtvr else u calling MDPS class , at least they should be equal at rank 40 (with the right specs.)

Thier is no such as "tank dps" just tanks who think their dpsing

your damage will always be lack luster compared to real dps and compared to the damage they do yours is nothing
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Joan
Posts: 671

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#26 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 1:58 pm

Coryphaus wrote:
lilsabin wrote:switch guarded target , loooooooooooooool , this is the funniest thing i have ever read... people dont even use guard to its full benefit . second , exept for the veteran of live , lots of people come from other mmorpg , where u could be a warrior and outdps a rogue or be a healer and have more defense utility then a warriro class... thats why certain person will go IB 2 handed or BO 2 handed . Not everybody want to be a tank , but lot s of people want to play "TANK" class in dps mode , because they are appealing , and this is where this game failed . If a BO or IB want to go dps spec , he should be as effective as a WE , WH , or wtvr else u calling MDPS class , at least they should be equal at rank 40 (with the right specs.)

Thier is no such as "tank dps" just tanks who think their dpsing

your damage will always be lack luster compared to real dps and compared to the damage they do yours is nothing
Exactly, Coriphaeus nails it. Tanks are meant to fulfill their role in a group soaking up damage via guards, ccing, etc, not attempting to be a dps. Not only your group utility becomes, in most situations, nullified but also because your damage is terrible compared to a true dps class
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Luth
Posts: 2840

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#27 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 2:45 pm

+ they lack any DPS tools, e.g. snare/root immunity or charge.

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Coryphaus
Posts: 2230

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#28 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:07 pm

Luth wrote: charge.
Chosen and kotbs are able to use flee like charge due to ap regen from power of the gods/bellow commands

though i feel that this is kinda bs and broken
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Azarael
Posts: 5332

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#29 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:10 pm

Those tactics need to be rethought entirely. Under the current system that's a flat 15 AP/s.

Luth
Posts: 2840

Re: A Short Dissertation on PvP Tanking

Post#30 » Sat Sep 19, 2015 3:18 pm

Yes, maybe this tactic shouldn't work while the tank is fleeing, under knockdown etc.

Maybe in the future there could be a slight balancing ajustement on the auras too, so that all buffs debuffs are temporarily removed while the tank is under knockdown, staggered, etc.

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