Return of Reckoning

gersy wrote: Thu Jan 22, 2026 5:49 pm

hogun wrote: Thu Jan 22, 2026 4:19 pm Hello,
it’s terrible to read so many false claims.


the skill that gives 25% extra auto-attack (Blood of Grimnir) is a complete joke. For one thing, the IB already had this buff personally at 50% auto-attack (Stubborn as Stone) in the base skill set.

Additionally, this skill buffs auto-attack over 50 feet in the group: in practice, it generally affects two melee DPS, or even fewer. Spending 13 points for that… seriously, is that supposed to be strong?

No IB will take this skill if they know the other options are much more useful. Ask your DPS: do they prefer 150 Strength + 10% Crit, or 25% auto-attack, knowing that today force buffs now stack?

The parade buff went from 25% to 20%, and the Weapon Skill self buff no longer buffs parade like it used to. And now IB is the only tank that can’t heal itself.

It's really funny that you begin this by saying "false claims" then make so many yourself.

Stubborn is AA speed buff, Blood is AA damage buff. It synergizes very well.

The range of 50ft is fine, it's meant to be played in double melee 6man comps, and easily buffs both tanks and both melee.

13 points for an ability which buffs AA damage of yourself and party members by 25% is actually quite strong.

No IB will take this skill? Not sure what universe you are living in but IB (especially SnB IB with blood of grimnir) has been a core pick in many of order's best 6man comps since it received this ability. 5/5/13 build has been a staple for double melee parties in SC, city and roaming parties for a while now. It's the same case for SnB BO too, with their "mirror" of this ability being a pickup in many of the best double melee comps.

The parry buff (Oathbound) received a buff when initiative was reworked (ini's scaling was heavily buffed and WS from parry was converted to ini), which arguably makes it better than before. It provides somewhere between 112 and 150 ini depending on how many point you have in mid tree. This effectively makes the ability actually grant 23-25% parry, 5-6% reduced chance to be crit and 3-4% dodge if my rough maths are correct (it's probably slightly more, but I'm round down for simplicity). I'm not sure how you can construe this as worse than before. Makes up for the WS buff losing the parry component while adding extra anticrit vs before to both you and 2 of your party members if you switch oathbuddy around properly. One of the most powerful abilities in the game for how little investment is required to obtain it (only 5pt mastery) and low cost to cast it (25 grudge, 20s duration 10s cd).


"IB is the only tank that cannot heal himself" - I don't really understand this. IB has disrupt healing tactic (Avalanche) and Avenging the Debt. Both can heal the IB.

As far as losing the self heal I'm not sure why this is always an argument when IB chatting comes up. The game is not balanced around solo play, 1v1, etc (despite how many seem to think it is a solo game). It is balanced around you having 2 healers in your party, and 2-6 more healers in your off parties who can also heal you. No other tank can realistically heal themselves either with abilities available in their kit, at most you have very small healing like chosen/kotbs aura and chosen disrupt tactic (small healing, and IB has same disrupt tactic which heals him and is used a lot in 12/18/24man warband builds for kiting and punt fishing), SM/BO have tactics for a small heal over time, afaik BG has nothing besides a 75% lifetap on an ability with 150 base damage. These heals don't really do much in grand scheme of the game, only really mattering in 1v1 which again the game is not balanced around.

Thanks for your message, despite the rather limited friendliness

You are right about Blood of Grimnir: it is indeed a 25% auto-attack damage buff. I had misunderstood that point.

That said, it doesn’t change my opinion. You mainly talk about fixed 6-man groups, which seems to be your reference format… but this game is first and foremost an RvR game, and optimized premade groups are a very personal choice. Wanting to balance the whole game around that format seems questionable to me, and your reasoning loses, in my view, part of its relevance.

Buffing auto-attacks by 25% in RvR, for 13 mastery points and 30 grudge, and only for your group, does not seem particularly interesting to me. But everyone can form their own opinion.

Regarding the parry buff, I understand your point of view, and I admit it’s an interesting argument. But in the end, you’re saying it’s at best equivalent to how it worked before, just with double the duration. Personally, I find it worse. I preferred having 25% parry + initiative for a shorter time rather than 20% parry + initiative for longer.
Yes, I regain some parry through initiative, but that’s also parry I previously had through the base WS buff, which included a parry component. So where is the real benefit?

As for healing, I think you should take a closer look at the group healing tools of SM/BO — they’re far from negligible. The group healing auras of KotBS/Chosen are also an advantage the IB simply does not have. And yes, the BG also has a lifetap on top of that. That’s exactly my point: they all have more self or group healing than the IB.
In the end, we disagree about Blood of Grimnir, and we disagree about the parry buff, even if I accept that the gap may not be huge. Still, the IB has been nerfed (armor buff, WS buff, grudge generation changes, etc.), and that’s the core of my argument. Saying that it is now stronger and more interesting than before is, in my opinion, wrong — just like saying it isn’t the weakest tank, whether in RvR, SC, or solo play.

I understand that you defend the fixed 6-man team concept, but personally, if I had to play only in that format, I probably wouldn’t choose an IB, considering what other tanks bring to a group. We should also remember that premade groups concern a minority of players, often in specific environments like scenarios. Building balance mainly around that format therefore seems questionable to me.
In my opinion, 80% of players don’t play in fixed groups, maybe even 90%.

To me, the real challenge is that players build characters designed for RvR, while still managing to perform well solo or in small groups through optimization and smart thinking. The game shouldn’t bend around solo play or premade teams — players should be the ones adapting and finding solutions.

And then there are players like me, who play Dwarf for fun, for the Warhammer lore, for the atmosphere… and for the IB’s Grumble’mutter. And honestly, that was far more fun and useful in solo play than Blood of Grimnir.
So why prioritize premade 6-man groups over solo play?

To be fair regening selfhealing all parrying armored midged in snb who :| nude newbies was fun only for specific category of players who in pvp pref to use 10 lairs of protection and slightly feel the process, then making video about "goodtimes". That skill shined only in solo play, i dont regret losing it on bg.

Farrul wrote: Fri Jan 23, 2026 9:33 am

gersy wrote: Thu Jan 22, 2026 5:49 pmAs far as losing the self heal I'm not sure why this is always an argument when IB chatting comes up. The game is not balanced around solo play, 1v1, etc

Grumble'mutter should never had been replaced in the first place, that's the first and only mistake. It was an iconic IB ability used and enjoyed by players both of solo, duo, 6 man and general fun to build around.

It was also an AP battery to the group with the tactic under it. It required some planing and thinking since it drained resources and could just not be mindlessly used like so many boring abilities, such as the replacement 'Blood of grimnir'.

The replacement? It's just another boring generic buff with no 'soul' . Hence this stands as another poor decision the devs made to class 'balance' and im sure by being influenced by the wrong kind of minds, unfortunately.

Same as the zealot change that nerfed their aoe and gave them generic dot dot dot lazer instead