What Makes WL so OP?

[noronn]

I'll add some more reasons as to why for OP:

Burst Damage & Armor

- Medium armor DPS (current meta) with the highest frontloaded single target burst in the game.

- Extremely high frontloaded AoE burst (channel + high armor penetration).

- Basically 0 setup time for burst – unlike most other classes.

Crowd Control (CC) – The Big One

- This is THE ONLY CLASS IN THE ENTIRE GAME with CC (Knockdown / Silence) off the GCD. (SH has disarm off gcd, sure. But we can all agree, that a 3 second knockdown has more impact than a disarm)

What does this mean? A frontloaded burst class can unleash its full burst instantly from second 0 of a 3s knockdown.

Every other DPS class either:
Relies on someone else’s knockdown, or
Loses ~1.5 seconds of that 3-second knockdown before even starting their burst.

This is a massive difference in practical combat – and a core reason why the class feels oppressive.

Bugs & Odd Interactions

- Known issues still in play:

- 100ft+ ranged knockdown

- Insane pull range

Player / Pet Split

- The damage/CC split between player and pet adds another layer:

- Pull counterplay: you must CC the player (pull comes from them).

- Knockdown counterplay: you must CC the pet (but LF KD immunity makes this hard – disarm is basically the only option).

Result: you will get pulled OR knocked either way. Same applies to the detaunt.

Mobility

- Pounce gives both you and your pet a burst of movement speed after landing.

This can get you out of very hairy situations and lets you play the positioning game on a completely different level compared to almost all other DPS classes.

Design Advantages

- Avoids most drawbacks other classes face while still fitting perfectly into the current medium armor meta.

- Can run all the strong tools in one spec thanks to +2.

RoR-specific Changes

- Increased channel damage.

- Added armor penetration tactic.

- Removed condition on the damage increase.(If specced mid left)

(At least there was a stealth fix for LF procs being counted properly – so no more free flanking benefit).

With it's tools it is the perfect counter to a 321 ranged setup sure. But it's a bit much for my liking...

This is the one side of the story..

WL is also THE ONLY CLASS IN THE ENTIRE GAME with CC skills (Knockdown / Silence / Pull) on 15sec cooldown even without using them, when the pet dies. No other class has a skill that didn’t use on cooldown. Also, if the WL uses pet-dependent Tactics like “Pack Synergy, Speed Training”, they are also useless for 15sec.

In WBvWB fights the pet dies so fast, even before reaching the first target. That’s why most WLs prefer Loner tactic, sacrificing all CC skills.

All that feeling about WL is OP, it only derives from Pounce, which in RoR-changes it is nerfed. In live it had AoE damage on landing and no cooldown (maybe with a tactic, don’t remember).

Considering Mara, did you know that:
1. Has AoE knockdown
2. Has higher survivability that all other mDPS
3. Has Self-Heal
4. Has Wound debuff, like moral damage ignoring armor-toughness mitigation.
5. Has lower Burst but the same DPS as WL
6. His Pull laser-beam can’t be killed
7. His CC abilities go on cooldown only after using them
8. He gets the sov +2 too, like all classes.
9. Avoids most drawbacks other classes face while still fitting perfectly into the current medium armor meta (copied from post but fits here too, after all no info provided)

Every class has its unique perks and drawbacks.
Presenting only the perks while ignoring the drawbacks is just a trap
Presenting only the perks while ignoring other’s classes perks is also a trap
Don’t fall in.

LMAO

[Akalukz]

[

Spoiler:

quote=Akalukz post_id=582857 time=1757075337 user_id=2166]

I guess each to their own. These 25% incoming healdebuffs with 10%chance (individually per target) have been a way for order to try and replicate having a chosen just exsisting in the fight, which is 100% uptime and garenteed.

BW on Bloodlord has the same proc, but was almost never used as this effect is just not that great for what you are giving up.
Same for WL, this is not a new thing that WL is running this proc. Back 3 or so years if you had two aoe WLs in your city warband you would ask one of them to rin the Healdebuff proc and the other to run the Armor debuff proc version. It really is not a big deal for balacing imho.

Im not fully in the loop of the many bugs and inintented interactions on RoR atm. But if the overall gameplay is blobby, if TimeToKill is small because Challange and Bellow doesnt stack, and the fights are very quick. The naturally WL and Mara with their Burst on Demand 25% damage increase spins and interrupts to cancel eachother out, are the two main aoe dps classes you wanna stack.

The problem becomes such that it is free, whereas the chosen one is mastery point driven and the WL's on a BiS weapon even without the proc on the BiS AoE Class for the realm. and the true 10% for 25%HD is pretty much 100% up time in RoR, if you truly watch the proc rate, for free, no need to tri spec mastery trees like the Chosen has to do which in turn limits a lot of build variety.

"Free" in the terms that you dont slot the armor debuff weapon choice nor the Bloodlord 5% dmg one. Dont get me wrong the WL HD proc is good to have. But id much rather have a dps runie for 35% while also bringing aoe armordebuff on demand.

And on destro you dont need all your chosen to run healdebuff, just one of them. Its really not a big deal getting it slotted into your warband (from experience running destro warbands/guilds)[/spoiler]
[/quote]

You are without a doubt more knowledgeable than I , and will concede the point

[Akalukz]

Spoiler:

I'll add some more reasons as to why for OP:

Burst Damage & Armor

- Medium armor DPS (current meta) with the highest frontloaded single target burst in the game.

- Extremely high frontloaded AoE burst (channel + high armor penetration).

- Basically 0 setup time for burst – unlike most other classes.

Crowd Control (CC) – The Big One

- This is THE ONLY CLASS IN THE ENTIRE GAME with CC (Knockdown / Silence) off the GCD. (SH has disarm off gcd, sure. But we can all agree, that a 3 second knockdown has more impact than a disarm)

What does this mean? A frontloaded burst class can unleash its full burst instantly from second 0 of a 3s knockdown.

Every other DPS class either:
Relies on someone else’s knockdown, or
Loses ~1.5 seconds of that 3-second knockdown before even starting their burst.

This is a massive difference in practical combat – and a core reason why the class feels oppressive.

Bugs & Odd Interactions

- Known issues still in play:

- 100ft+ ranged knockdown

- Insane pull range

Player / Pet Split

- The damage/CC split between player and pet adds another layer:

- Pull counterplay: you must CC the player (pull comes from them).

- Knockdown counterplay: you must CC the pet (but LF KD immunity makes this hard – disarm is basically the only option).

Result: you will get pulled OR knocked either way. Same applies to the detaunt.

Mobility

- Pounce gives both you and your pet a burst of movement speed after landing.

This can get you out of very hairy situations and lets you play the positioning game on a completely different level compared to almost all other DPS classes.

Design Advantages

- Avoids most drawbacks other classes face while still fitting perfectly into the current medium armor meta.

- Can run all the strong tools in one spec thanks to +2.

RoR-specific Changes

- Increased channel damage.

- Added armor penetration tactic.

- Removed condition on the damage increase.(If specced mid left)

(At least there was a stealth fix for LF procs being counted properly – so no more free flanking benefit).

With it's tools it is the perfect counter to a 321 ranged setup sure. But it's a bit much for my liking...

This is the one side of the story..

WL is also THE ONLY CLASS IN THE ENTIRE GAME with CC skills (Knockdown / Silence / Pull) on 15sec cooldown even without using them, when the pet dies. No other class has a skill that didn’t use on cooldown. Also, if the WL uses pet-dependent Tactics like “Pack Synergy, Speed Training”, they are also useless for 15sec.

In WBvWB fights the pet dies so fast, even before reaching the first target. That’s why most WLs prefer Loner tactic, sacrificing all CC skills.

All that feeling about WL is OP, it only derives from Pounce, which in RoR-changes it is nerfed. In live it had AoE damage on landing and no cooldown (maybe with a tactic, don’t remember).

Spoiler:

Considering Mara, did you know that:
1. Has AoE knockdown
2. Has higher survivability that all other mDPS
3. Has Self-Heal
4. Has Wound debuff, like moral damage ignoring armor-toughness mitigation.
5. Has lower Burst but the same DPS as WL
6. His Pull laser-beam can’t be killed
7. His CC abilities go on cooldown only after using them
8. He gets the sov +2 too, like all classes.
9. Avoids most drawbacks other classes face while still fitting perfectly into the current medium armor meta (copied from post but fits here too, after all no info provided)

Every class has its unique perks and drawbacks.
Presenting only the perks while ignoring the drawbacks is just a trap
Presenting only the perks while ignoring other’s classes perks is also a trap
Don’t fall in.

Try stance dancing on a mara where you are shut out of 2 other entire skill lines for 5 seconds at each stance change.