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Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:39 pm
by Penril
Azarael wrote:Don't worry about the implementations; I'm more than capable of handling that.
I'm interested to see what people think, though I wonder if an outright ignore of Guard would have MDPS wondering why they exist.
Any decent mDPS class will still do way more damage than any 2H tank. Not to mention they have incoming heal debuffs and other nice toys that most tanks lack.
If it sounds too OP, how about making it so that 2H tanks can REMOVE guard from a target for 5 secs? This would give his DPS groupmates a window of opportunity to burst down a target. Could be tied to the same tactics i mentioned.
Example: Guud at Big Choppin!
When you are wielding a Greatweapon, your chance to parry is increased by 5% and all damage you deal is increased by 10%. In addition, when using a Greatweapon, Not in Da Face! will also remove guard from your enemy target for 5 seconds.
I used Not in Da Face! as an example since it has a 20 sec CD and this way, the guard-remove won't be spammable. I'm sure you get the idea.
Another way to implement this would be having the 2H tank attack the GUARD (enemy tank) and removing guard from the tank directly instead of the guardee, while giving his Guard skill a 5 sec CD (so it can't be immediately reapplied). This could make more sense, as in "Guy with HUGE sword is attacking me, i have to protect myself! sorry mate i can't guard you right now!". And it would make for some nice tactics/strategies.
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:02 pm
by Coryphaus
Penril wrote:
Any decent mDPS class will still do way more damage than any 2H tank. Not to mention they have incoming heal debuffs and other nice toys that most tanks lack.
except for kotbs who has 15% aoe hdebuff....among other things
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:05 pm
by Penril
Coryphaus wrote:Penril wrote:
Any decent mDPS class will still do way more damage than any 2H tank. Not to mention they have incoming heal debuffs and other nice toys that most tanks lack.
except for kotbs who has 15% aoe hdebuff....among other things
The KotBs heal debuff is 25% outgoing, not 15% incoming.
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:16 pm
by Olix
I realy enjoy the tone of this conversation , far from "pls don't loldps 2hand tank".
I enjoyed Kotbs 2hand on live, enjoying a lot my 2H SM atm.
It is true tanks give up a lot when dropping their shield, it's also true they dont get much in return and mostly lose a lot of group support tools.
I like the ideas of 2hand passing through guard or even removing guard ( Thanks for it Penril).
I believe even it is considered to be a selfish spec, most of 2hand tanks do want to help their group and since we can't have the same impact as mdps in term of dps, this action on guard could be the very tool we need to make sense of this DPS spec in all tanks archetype and make happy a lot of players who likes "in your face/tough " char.
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:21 pm
by Penril
Well i was never a big fan of mirroring classes. I always believed that the best way to fix certain classes/spec was giving them something unique. Examples:
- SMs/BOs are weak to ST punts and they don't have one. Solution: give them a defensive pounce (that was actually my suggestion in the old forums and even made it to 1.4.9).
- Mara pull is too OP/AMs are the worst order healers. Solution: Give AMs a defensive pull.
- Engies/Magus are too weak! Solution: Delete them from the game
.
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:23 pm
by Azarael
Olix wrote:I believe even it is considered to be a selfish spec, most of 2hand tanks do want to help their group and since we can't have the same impact as mdps in term of dps, this action on guard could be the very tool we need to make sense of this DPS spec in all tanks archetype and make happy a lot of players who likes "in your face/tough " char.
I think calling a spec selfish is just a code word for calling it underpowered. All players should be capable of contributing positively for their team with their actions.
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:32 pm
by skutrug
Penril wrote:
- Engies/Magus are too weak! Solution: Delete them from the game
.
A most excellent suggestion!
And it would solve in one move the problems of keep exploiting and server lag!
/duck before the gunline volley
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:35 pm
by Azarael
skutrug wrote:/duck before the gunline volley
Bitterstone Thunderers... Advance on my position!
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:41 pm
by Coryphaus
The problem with your removing guard is the potentially disastrous effect it will have on mdps especially high risk high reward class like choppa who need a guard bot to function to their potential to be able to remove a guard essentially means that a mdps will to basically turn tail and run
Also penril I'm curious to see if you have any suggestions on how to make choppas equal but still unique to slayers
Re: Role of 2H SM: Backlines Bodyguard
Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:59 pm
by skutrug
I like the guard removing idea actually. I would not put a cooldown on guard since good tanks do move their guard around (and that's why they don't die from a bunch of choppas trying vainly to kill an invincible RP - Dwarves FTW), but in the middle of a fight, that guard icon is mightily small and would force tanks to pay close attention.
It could be attached as a bonus to a SM/BO 2-Handed-only ability with some short cooldown, and we could give it a try.
I don't believe one second "that choppas need a guardbot to reach their full potential"... guard is a crutch for choppas/slayers who never bother to drop rage. Beside, it will work both ways: The choppas may finally get to kill that guarded RP when his guard get removed... maybe...