tazdingo wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2024 3:11 am
sry to necro but i've been playing around with these sorts of builds again with all the recent tank changes and have come to some very different conclusions. what's already been discussed is probably useful reading for anyone hopping in
so i was wrong about it being ib. mainly i was wrong about chance to crit not mattering (i always forgot to factor in crit dmg multipliers) but i also undervalued absorbs. my current list from worst to best:
BO - worst by far. self heals and aoe str debuff requires hitting which breaks warlord detaunt. absorb is weak. block channel gets interrupted, breaks detaunt and now has cd. no useful morales
BG - not great, especially after losing heal. absorb isn't that strong and it being 10 sec means it just gets constantly severed if you're getting beat on. avoidance tactics don't matter in this context. mid 13 is alright but it's just gonna get severed. m1 is good. main trick is terrifying foe which with the gear you're gonna want to use will get you to around 1280 tough (you hit 1050 unbuffed, so 1050 + (472.5/2)) which is def nice that's around 20% less inc dmg vs 1050 tough. remember you're gonna be perma debuffed though
IB - no more grumble but otherwise decent. can hit around 65% flat dmg reduction with a block proc (detaunt, hc, seasoned vet, shield mastery all multiplicative). free 80 toughness from tactic is great. init and parry buff that doesn't require you to hit is nice and has a great m3 but you can't pump to it so it's only every 90 sec. 2nd jug is great in this context
SM - great absorb in vauls buffer and lots of healing though it all requires you to be attacking (so breaking detaunt on 1 target). this isn't that bad if there's a tank in the attacking group and you wanna keep eagle's flight up anyway (for proccing vauls buffer). raking talons is also good for an extra 10% dmg reduction (multi with detaunt, not additive) from their melee at least. m3 is garbage as it will mass break your detaunts but the leap is really good, can jump to a ranged guy, jug and buy yourself a good amount of time to regen before the melee catches up again
knight - emperors ward is top of class of survivability tactics. vigilance eats a lot of initial pressure and can help you stabilize, long term it can be seen as ~8% dmg reduction. aoe str debuff that doesn't require hitting is ~10% dmg reduction (vs melee at least, but you're spamming htl for sorcs anyway). tough aura lets you run -crit% lini. heal aura is good, 50-60/sec for free. as you're gonna be spamming htl anyway as knight doesn't need to attack you can take the disrupt tactic for 60% disrupt. suns blessing gives you plenty of ap to do this and you have the free tactic slot. m1 is good.
chosen - the king. warped flesh does a huge amount of work when you have some regen behind it, remember absorbs "eat" crits (little more complicated than that but broad strokes), stack together and use toughness. 3 sec refresh means severing is much less of a worry vs 10 second absorbs. flawless armour is 10% dmg reduction (if you consider the most dangerous dps as having an average 100% crit multi.) str, tough and regen auras all the same as knight. m3 is amazing and you can pump to it - in practical terms, you get a free extra health bar every 60 secs as this build only goes to about 8k wounds
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this is just a few months of playing around with them alongside endlessly putting stuff in the dmg calculator. gear for everyone looks like this:
helm, shoulders, gloves, belt, boots, cloak, jewel 1 - warlord (detaunt proc)
body - grimshimmer
jewel 2, 3 & 4 - tough/hp fleshrender
wep - tyranny/glory (regen)
shield - fortress (absorb proc - 3% doesn't sound like much but if you're getting hit by enough people for any of this to matter it will be up all of the time. beats the regen shield)
renown is full futile and fortitude except ib who takes hc instead of fortitude
all talis are toughness
pots are -crit and armour
if anyone thinks i've got something wrong or has any other ideas please jump in, this is all just from toying. a lot of this is based on the following suppositions:
10 toughness = 1% dmg reduction
1% crit reduction = 1% dmg reduction
wounds don't matter cause it's all about making every hit point count
armour doesn't matter that much because so many people ignore it
resists don't matter at all as they all get debuffed to 0 anyway
melee avoidance doesn't matter that much as people just hit you in the back or ignore it (you get enough free from shield block rating now to perma-proc stuff like chosen/knight regen, so don't need any investment)
ranged avoidance is alright but htl provides enough
in game it's just too chaotic to get any solid numbers but these seem about right.
remember aoe root + jug to lose pressure and regen for a few secs. idk if fleeing is worth is especially as chosen, you really just wanna keep building to m3
save your heal and absorb pots for post-morale bomb (you usually survive thanks to the scaling changes.) if you force an organized group (or 2!!!) to coordinate a morale bomb solely on your dumpy ass just consider it a victory
remember procs will kill you anyway because they're stupid un-fun garbage that shouldn't exist as they do
this is all way easier as destro in general as you're not dealing with witchbrew and sorc st
happy not dying