AoE spam is getting old

[Tesq]

Any attack that hits more than one person should have its dmg reduced by 20%-30%.
Why not teach people to use thinking in combat rather than constantly increasing the importance of aoe in the game?
E.g. what is the point of having abilities like SL Flurry or Choppa Losta choppin in the game? The ability beats 3 targets, has a range 5 times longer than mele range and maybe even more, costs 5 ap less than Pulverizing or Slash.
Such aoe nonsense should have been eliminated from the game long ago.
And so we have classes that in the same build are ST and aoe at the same time.

There are several missconception from my point of view in this post
Yes st should have higer importance in rvr but it's not by reduce aoe dmg you make it so. It's by give organised wb way to soak dmg with positionijg such aoe cap to 9 then Buff nominal aoe dmg, this way org wb can and should beat mindless blob by play better and positioning better. Or at least be able to kite it. While also encourage in sich where org wb face org wb to bring out st target to assist and take down primary target

Aka more durable tank, aoe cap 9, aoe dmg buffed on par with tank durability, less heals in general.

[Sulorie]

We had a 9 target cap for years and it was bad and it got changed and now the higher target cap is bad too and we shall go back to 9 target cap? Let's go full circle, shall we?

Its was bad for what reason?
what problem had to he solved with aoe cap to 24 ? and did the 24 aoe cap really solved it?

Can you answer to these question straight?

At the time for what i understand the reason for the change was " TO ALLOW TO COUNTER ZERG".

if this was the case we would not be here talk about the same thing over and over....

There is no way to replicate what it was possible do vs the zerg years ago , the sich even became worst since you cannot even moral nuke some blob anymore objective speaking not that i like it as balance.

If I recall correctly it was about zergs being able to split up damage due to lower target cap and therefore only some fraction of your players get hit. The more people you have the less % of them get hit by 9 target AOE.

Mind please that is just the reasoning behind the changes back then and it's not on me to judge whether it was appropriate.
One could argue that only the number of targets being hit was changed and not the power balance as the bigger side has more AOE DD, who just hit more targets as well.
At best funnels became more dangerous.

[Sulorie]

, aoe dmg buffed

How far you want to buff AOE DMG? There should be a significant power difference between AOE and single target hits.

[Garamore]

Drop aoe damage to 9 and the warband leaders that are bringing 70+ to a fight will steam roll any smaller group as they will simple hit you 2-3 times for every hit you can do and you cannot keep them at bay with AOE only hitting 9. I'd rather uncapped AOE and higher morale damage so a smaller group can hold off a blob.

[Tesq]

, aoe dmg buffed

How far you want to buff AOE DMG? There should be a significant power difference between AOE and single target hits.

i think there are more way to achive that:

- limit target cap alredy make soak dmg by positioning easier, org wb vs org wb will know how positioning and so the wall of fire will most likely help vs pug zerg but not viceversa, the pug zerg wont be able to use it vs org wb (that can also kite like we used to in live)

-if tank are durable ( and i mean it) due reduced target cap and guard most of aoe will get reduced due target saturation which mean to bypass the body coutner you need st DD at work.

-alternative the balance can be achive by nerf group/aoe heals alltogheter with reducing aoe cap instead overbuff aoe dmg (or can mix both), this is likely the best options since it reduce A) elastic healtbar B) make tank more durable on their own C) healers still relevant due requring heal st burst and still group heals.
Usually warhammr patchesnotes had follow a buff dmg and heals pattern so that there is a balance between both: where to make an example the ratio is dmg 3 heal 3 durability 1, the game would run far better if the ratio is dmg 3 durability 2 and heal 1, and of course not bothering with any rock paper scissor approach someone mantionit in the past.

NB: but none of this is possible with an aoe target higer than 8 tank + 1, of course the direction is always to make able org wb to beat zerg with their aoe and not suffer zerg because it's a number problem, and allow org wb vs org wb to have interesting fights with St being relevant.

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regarding melee train wb format imo is just a matter of range, need to surgical try and error to nerf a bit the range of melee or after the 9 cap back increase rdd dmg up compared to dd or again either give rdd slight higher target cap, i mean if city base staple build could jsut be 1 bw /1engi and 4 slayer vs 4 choppa and 1sorc / 1 magus there is a reason. There is a lot of ways to balance and toy with wb balance but a blaked 24 aoe range for all just dosent cut it.

man i miss the fight with bohemia and radiant knight from live...

[Tesq]

Drop aoe damage to 9 and the warband leaders that are bringing 70+ to a fight will steam roll any smaller group as they will simple hit you 2-3 times for every hit you can do and you cannot keep them at bay with AOE only hitting 9. I'd rather uncapped AOE and higher morale damage so a smaller group can hold off a blob.

learn to kite so they can hit only your 8 tanks in frot of your wb, if you dont fill a wb thats your problem and 24 cap wont change a thing in that sich.

[Garamore]

I can kite well - they will surround you and kill you. If you back into a corner the sheer numbers will kill you. Everytime AOE gets nerfed the blob gets stronger.

[dwyur]

Dropping AoE cap to 9 would be a bad change.

Drop aoe damage to 9 and the warband leaders that are bringing 70+ to a fight will steam roll any smaller group as they will simple hit you 2-3 times for every hit you can do and you cannot keep them at bay with AOE only hitting 9. I'd rather uncapped AOE and higher morale damage so a smaller group can hold off a blob.

learn to kite so they can hit only your 8 tanks in frot of your wb, if you dont fill a wb thats your problem and 24 cap wont change a thing in that sich.

Kite where? You will get ran down by a second warband that is mounted, after being AoE knocked down/staggered/slowed.

[normanis]

brainless aoe noone assist, at 9aoe cap ppl atleast assist to kill something. at moment bigger zerg has more aoe = win. no need brains. lotd is example 1 big blob go alla round and if your blob is lower u are melted. there is diference 9 ppl hit u same time or 24.
limited taken damage by razze (next razze hit is weaker than previous, was somwhere in balance patch years ago) byt unlimited damage taken by abbility damage.
why not increased aoe from 9 to 12 , than see how its feel over all. (someone said 24 aoe is to help 12 men fight against zerg) bull **** 24men has more aoe they kill those who have less aoe simple math. zerg become more zergy. game become more laggy for order. as destro i have rare lags.(very possible its zerg rush in wb cause tham lagg like hell so they cant use abbilities = win) i call it exploit
24 aoe game breaking
p.s why didnt make aoe cap 48 or 72 if its to 12 men counter zerg.

[lumpi33]

Everytime AOE gets nerfed the blob gets stronger.

That is only half true. When you have a blob it doesn't mean that you don't have strong AOE in there as well. In EU prime there seems to be a lot of premades running together and most of these premades are melee AOE stacking wbs. Of course - it is the strongest setup. Then you have a huge advantage on one side, with premades running overpowered melee AOE and pugs/stealthers or dps AMs/Shamans on the other side, resulting in no kills at all for the outnumbered side.

I agree tho, that AOE is needed to fight bigger numbers. But having unlimited melee AOE stacking with high damage and large radius and no stacking for ranged channelled spells at all with mediocre damage is where the game went wrong. There is a huge power gap between melee blob aoe and ranged aoe.

There was a reason for the ground targeted spell channel nerf back then, yet we have to live with that melee blobbing for over 2 years now and nobody seems to acknowledge that this is basically an oversight and should not be that way.

People back then argued that BW bombing and channelling on the same spot is too strong. How is a melee blob knocking and mowing you down any different from that BW bombing back then? It's even worse now. Melees wear medium armor with more defense stuff, have better crowed control like the aoe knock down or pulls, are very mobile and have better ways to escape like charge or the mSH knock back. And since the tanks got raze on m2 now that blob can kill even faster.

There is no doubt that melee aoe blobbing needs a nerf. Either by limiting the stacking or the range or the damage or a mix of all. There is also no doubt that the "you cannot stack channelled spells of the same type" should be seen as quick fix back then but is not a good solution. In fight you don't know who else is channelling on the same spot. It fires, wastes your cooldown and does zero damage. That is as broken as the melee blobbing.