Getting stomped in Sc's

[lumpi33]

How dare you to demand from me to counter basic gameplay mechanic ! I just wanna smash my buttons and my targets should die...

Sometimes i really cry and die inside when i read ppl posting stuff like this...

All the solution is very simple, stop playing solo, duoQueue, tripleQueue, 6man queue, and start finally playing the game how it was designed to be played...

I didn't say "remove guard". I said it is probably the reason why some groups or players are so incredible hard to kill.

Sure, it is not guard alone, it is a combination of a lot of things. However, Im pretty sure that guard plays a big factor in that because it is already too easy to stack defensive or mitigating stuff compared to damage boosting stuff. Putting a -50% damage on a player with all the other stuff there is (detaunt, CC, absorbs, heals, potions, dodge/parry/disrupt/block, etc.) is just too much. Especially on sov players/groups and especially in small scale where you just don't have the damage to counter that.

Whether they need to nerf guard or nerf defensive stuff in general or buff damage... whatever it is... we went too far in the defensive/surviving direction, allowing people to kill and roll over others while barely ever dying.

That's just not right and should be looked at.

Did you try to punt away the tank and burst the target ?

There are only 2 classes on each side that have a punt that is far enough to put the tank away for a short time. So you need one of these, then you need no immunity on the target, then you need an assist with moral drops, then your punt must be ready, then the punt could get defended, then you gotta hope that they don't have potions ready, then you gotta hope that nobody disables or punts you away in the time you want to burst the target, then you gotta hope that no other tank switches his guard to that target and then you gotta hope that nobody is using a moral to counter it.

See ranked matches how hard it is to pull off. It takes the tank only a few seconds to get back in guard range. Those that can pull it off are usually the premades themselves. So no, it doesn't make killing premade targets any easier.

[lemao]

I didn't say "remove guard". I said it is probably the reason why some groups or players are so incredible hard to kill.

Sure, it is not guard alone, it is a combination of a lot of things. However, Im pretty sure that guard plays a big factor in that because it is already too easy to stack defensive or mitigating stuff compared to damage boosting stuff. Putting a -50% damage on a player with all the other stuff there is (detaunt, CC, absorbs, heals, potions, dodge/parry/disrupt/block, etc.) is just too much. Especially on sov players/groups and especially in small scale where you just don't have the damage to counter that.

Whether they need to nerf guard or nerf defensive stuff in general or buff damage... whatever it is... we went too far in the defensive/surviving direction, allowing people to kill and roll over others while barely ever dying.

That's just not right and should be looked at.

Did you try to punt away the tank and burst the target ?

There are only 2 classes on each side that have a punt that is far enough to put the tank away for a short time. So you need one of these, then you need no immunity on the target, then you need an assist with moral drops, then your punt must be ready, then the punt could get defended, then you gotta hope that they don't have potions ready, then you gotta hope that nobody disables or punts you away in the time you want to burst the target, then you gotta hope that no other tank switches his guard to that target and then you gotta hope that nobody is using a moral to counter it.

See ranked matches how hard it is to pull off. It takes the tank only a few seconds to get back in guard range. Those that can pull it off are usually the premades themselves. So no, it doesn't make killing premade targets any easier.

I mean what the fk do you expect from pugs vs a decent played premade ? There is no way you should win (in kills) unless you have 1 yourself or you are outnumbering them by a lot. You dont need morales to get kills (it helps ofc) if the punt gets defended its the players fault/fail for missing it. If the enemy is kd´d they cant use their potions. Guard shouldnt be nerfed JUST because you have a very limited chance to kill them because you are pugging vs a premade. It´s more of a discussion of creating better matchmaking so premades face other ones more often, but please leave the guard mechanic out of it.

[lumpi33]

I mean what the fk do you expect from pugs vs a decent played premade ? There is no way you should win (in kills) unless you have 1 yourself or you are outnumbering them by a lot. You dont need morales to get kills (it helps ofc) if the punt gets defended its the players fault/fail for missing it. If the enemy is kd´d they cant use their potions. Guard shouldnt be nerfed JUST because you have a very limited chance to kill them because you are pugging vs a premade. It´s more of a discussion of creating better matchmaking so premades face other ones more often, but please leave the guard mechanic out of it.

Lets do an example.

When you have someone with 10k health and an attacker with 1k dps then it would take 10s to kill, right?

10.000 health / 1000 dps = 10 s to kill

Now lets say say the guy being attacked is getting better gear and is able to reduce the attackers dps by 200:

10.000 health / 800 dps = 12.5 s to kill

That means the better equipment would result in 2.5s longer surviving.

Now lets try this example with guard. So with guard the attackers 1000dps getting cut in half:

10.000 health / 500 dps = 20 s to kill

Now with better gear the attackers dps getting cut in half:

10.000 health / 400 dps = 25 s to kill (or is it even 10.000 health / (500-200) = 33.3s) ?

From the initial 10s to kill we went up to 12.5s with better gear and BOOM up to 25s with better gear and guard.

If a player is getting tougher with end game gear then he is getting SUPER tough with end game gear and guard.

Guard is not just a flat reduction like an armor debuff. It is a multiplier. Therein lies the problem and that's why we are having that armor/toughness/defensive stacking on most players. It's good without guard and incredible with guard.

How do you wanna counter that? There is no similar multiplier for damage.

Now we might understand why mythic had that 100% damage boost m2. It was the missing multiplier to counter the -50% guard reduction. They removed that making guard incredible overpowered.

[CyunUnderis]

Guard is not just a flat reduction like an armor debuff. It is a multiplier. Therein lies the problem and that's why we are having that armor/toughness/defensive stacking on most players. It's good without guard and incredible with guard.

How do you wanna counter that? There is no similar multiplier for damage.

You don't need a damage multiplier to counter the guard. Punt the guard, or punt the target away and burst him (in fly if you have a RDPS composition) or M1 Talon or M1 Demolishing Strike + Armor debuff on the target and Numbling Strike (or other parry/block debuff) on the tank are all good counters.

Check VOD of ranked/cities, you'll see how fast BiS guarded people can melt with good coordination.

[kirraha]

2 thing should be done to lesser the negative effects of pug vs premade

1. Remova barriers, put guards and allow the side under pressure to fall back on save spot (at least healers to be unchallanged)

2. Bring back renown gain from guards kills like it was on live, so the weaker side try and fight with the mindset to punt enemy on guards and took some reward out of it

Do that and surrender vote will be much less used and ppl (well pugs mainly) will be happier. And eventually prems will start doing sc objectives.

I dont agree. Guards are used as a cheap tool ppl run back to for hiding when under preassure. Imo, remlve guards and add a barrier, when you cant heal through. You going through this barrier, you choose to enter the fight and shouldnt have a mommy and daddy to run back to for cover.

[lemao]

I mean what the fk do you expect from pugs vs a decent played premade ? There is no way you should win (in kills) unless you have 1 yourself or you are outnumbering them by a lot. You dont need morales to get kills (it helps ofc) if the punt gets defended its the players fault/fail for missing it. If the enemy is kd´d they cant use their potions. Guard shouldnt be nerfed JUST because you have a very limited chance to kill them because you are pugging vs a premade. It´s more of a discussion of creating better matchmaking so premades face other ones more often, but please leave the guard mechanic out of it.

Lets do an example.

When you have someone with 10k health and an attacker with 1k dps then it would take 10s to kill, right?

10.000 health / 1000 dps = 10 s to kill

Now lets say say the guy being attacked is getting better gear and is able to reduce the attackers dps by 200:

10.000 health / 800 dps = 12.5 s to kill

That means the better equipment would result in 2.5s longer surviving.

Now lets try this example with guard. So with guard the attackers 1000dps getting cut in half:

10.000 health / 500 dps = 20 s to kill

Now with better gear the attackers dps getting cut in half:

10.000 health / 400 dps = 25 s to kill (or is it even 10.000 health / (500-200) = 33.3s) ?

From the initial 10s to kill we went up to 12.5s with better gear and BOOM up to 25s with better gear and guard.

If a player is getting tougher with end game gear then he is getting SUPER tough with end game gear and guard.

Guard is not just a flat reduction like an armor debuff. It is a multiplier. Therein lies the problem and that's why we are having that armor/toughness/defensive stacking on most players. It's good without guard and incredible with guard.

How do you wanna counter that? There is no similar multiplier for damage.

Now we might understand why mythic had that 100% damage boost m2. It was the missing multiplier to counter the -50% guard reduction. They removed that making guard incredible overpowered.

There are plenty of tools to remove guard or use abilities to reduce stats (ie. Demolishing, Zealot m1, armor debuffs in general) as stated 2 posts above.
If you dont use these tools effectively it´s your fault alone, there are options to outplay the guard mechanic. As i said if you are not in a premade urself it is most like not gonna happen, since you probably not gonna have the coordination with random people in your scenario without voice comms to outplay decent premades (as it should be). A BIS geared dps will die if you cc his tanks , armordebuff him and kd and burst him, doesn´t matter if he has Sov or Vanq gear.

[rejndjer]

what is enemy team doing while you are punting bis tank and cc focusing bis DPS? they're just standing and watching? lmao

now the guy who calls for removal of guard is wrong as well. game is balanced around big massive fights. not around your small-scale scenario jerk offing. if you dont like scenarios just dont play them, they're only played by new players and top premades who farm ez renown.

[Xergon]

I mean what the fk do you expect from pugs vs a decent played premade ? There is no way you should win (in kills) unless you have 1 yourself or you are outnumbering them by a lot. You dont need morales to get kills (it helps ofc) if the punt gets defended its the players fault/fail for missing it. If the enemy is kd´d they cant use their potions. Guard shouldnt be nerfed JUST because you have a very limited chance to kill them because you are pugging vs a premade. It´s more of a discussion of creating better matchmaking so premades face other ones more often, but please leave the guard mechanic out of it.

Lets do an example.

When you have someone with 10k health and an attacker with 1k dps then it would take 10s to kill, right?

10.000 health / 1000 dps = 10 s to kill

Now lets say say the guy being attacked is getting better gear and is able to reduce the attackers dps by 200:

10.000 health / 800 dps = 12.5 s to kill

That means the better equipment would result in 2.5s longer surviving.

Now lets try this example with guard. So with guard the attackers 1000dps getting cut in half:

10.000 health / 500 dps = 20 s to kill

Now with better gear the attackers dps getting cut in half:

10.000 health / 400 dps = 25 s to kill (or is it even 10.000 health / (500-200) = 33.3s) ?

From the initial 10s to kill we went up to 12.5s with better gear and BOOM up to 25s with better gear and guard.

If a player is getting tougher with end game gear then he is getting SUPER tough with end game gear and guard.

Guard is not just a flat reduction like an armor debuff. It is a multiplier. Therein lies the problem and that's why we are having that armor/toughness/defensive stacking on most players. It's good without guard and incredible with guard.

How do you wanna counter that? There is no similar multiplier for damage.

Now we might understand why mythic had that 100% damage boost m2. It was the missing multiplier to counter the -50% guard reduction. They removed that making guard incredible overpowered.

Why are you only factoring better gear for guy that being attacked, what about better gear for guy that is making attacks ? Also why are you factoring guard vs 1 DPS, where is 2nd DPS ? Why are you comparing 2v1 fight ?

[Dajciekrwi]

How dare you to demand from me to counter basic gameplay mechanic ! I just wanna smash my buttons and my targets should die...

Sometimes i really cry and die inside when i read ppl posting stuff like this...

All the solution is very simple, stop playing solo, duoQueue, tripleQueue, 6man queue, and start finally playing the game how it was designed to be played...

delete pug sc. Only premade. Will be awsome. Wait no1 play this great type of premade sc.

It's called Ranked. The most useless sc style.

heheh, Wachlarz just use the sarcasm.
Now its my time: i die inside when i realize that im playing 13th years in ROR from june 2014 and NEVER SPEND EVEN ONE DAY on "designed way" XXDDD

[lemao]

what is enemy team doing while you are punting bis tank and cc focusing bis DPS? they're just standing and watching? lmao

now the guy who calls for removal of guard is wrong as well. game is balanced around big massive fights. not around your small-scale scenario jerk offing. if you dont like scenarios just dont play them, they're only played by new players and top premades who farm ez renown.

You will not outheal a targeted dps in kd which is armor + healdebuffed.
Just because you don´t like scenarios/smallscale which requires a bit more skill and coordination(premade vs premade, not pug farming) compared to playing in warbands doesn´t mean its only played for new and premade players. Many of these players just dont enjoy RVR because it´s a zergfest most of the time and you cant have as much impact as a 6 man in RVR as you used to have. You are bascially forced to run with the zerg yourself(most of the time) which is boring, or get zerged down yourself.