Return of Reckoning

wargrimnir wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:03 pm

Everdin wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:56 pm

kirraha wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:04 am

Im curious if a person would make a Macro rotaion, is that okey or concidered a cheat? Some keyboard programs allow one macro button push and you can make certain full rotations on the char.
Since you outed the comment ''If you want to use a sequence, build the sequence''

Terms of Use:

1.4 No cheating.
This is one of our strongest rules and will certainly result in a swift and permanent ban.
- Don't use hacks, cheats and other illegitimate game modifications.
- Don't automate your gameplay by any means (macros, bots, gaming mice, etc.) If your character is acting in the game, you MUST be able to respond to a GM if prompted.
- Don't use any addon which creates issues or allows access to exploits.
- If you KNOW of a serious exploit or way to cheat our systems, report it to a GM or Lead (MaxHayman, Lheana, Wargrimnir)

Automation generally refers to unattended gameplay, not simply the act of using macros while playing. That's why the second sentence is there, to clarify what kind of automation we're looking for.

Thanks for clearify, yeah its feeling a bit effy with some new addons that has popped up. Prob is concidered cheats from some and totally fine by others. I just liked to asked since it came up here in the comments a bit about Macro rotation

Since I feel like the OP's point is not visually explained well, here's what I would like to see happen...

Currently, I have a sequence like so:



The hotbar, by default, shows Force Opportunity in the icon.

This works as intended. Every 2 seconds, the sequence resets and skips abilities on cooldown.

However, let's say I add "Cull the Weak" to this setup. This is an ability that will contextually activate depending on the targets' health.


If I add this ability to my 10s rotation button, I can no longer activate the rest of the sequence - Cull the Weak will never activate until my target reaches 50% health, and thus, the rest of the sequence will never activate.
Cull the Weak should be considered an 'ability on cooldown' while it is unusable. That doesn't appear to be happening, and breaks functionality.


Under this setup, there is no automation. I still have to be at the keyboard and hit the sequence. For the record, NB never had AFK automation in it either - but instead, NB extended scripted conditionals beyond the realm of what a sequencer did.
The above screenshot is tame in comparison to NB and would be the appropriate use case. Besides, others have made more malicious addons that do that way better than NB did.

I am not asking for duration conditionals, or 'cast heal when target is below x' style conditionals. I am asking for the ability to keybind less things - simply because I am a software engineer who has a permanent repetitive strain injury. Mind you, 4 years of my life of that carpal tunnel was spent developing for Return of Reckoning.

Please consider adding this in as a feature.

Everdin wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:39 pm

Morradin wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 11:19 pm

Kaelang wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:58 am

Does War Triage cycle between debuffs / shielding / HotS and healing in an optimal manner like NB did with conditionals?

If so sure I'll take another look at it.

From my understanding War Triage acts as a 'target lowest health, do nothing'. It doesn't show you the optimal method of healing by pressing one button?

Or am I mistaken?

Happy to stand corrected if so.

But we are not talking about NB. We are talking about the in game sequncer allowing skipping of a greyed out ability in a stack.

YOU want to complain about NB and talk about it. The in game sequencer does not cycle debuffs, shielding, or anything else you mention. (reality is NB did not do that either, but I digress.)

I made a suggestion for the in game sequencer, and you started spewing NB stuff.

His main point is not the automation of the ability use (by klicking) but the automation of the decision. And thats whats matter if you look on other addons:
SwiftAssist does not take away any action, it just extends the way the game handles the assist. It doesn't say "this target is low and best target to kill".
Sequence does automation in a small way, just for cooldowns or target switch. What is far more then useless btw...
WarTriage & EZGuard definetly fall in this category for they take away a big decision from the player what player to guard/heal

Maybe this is a sign... and the NB will come back soon. I hope so

But the secuencer works fine for me... maybe need a few improvements

Morradin wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:14 am you are not worth the long and eloquent reply I had originally posted. I realize that you do not have the ability to understand.

Maybe it's because being spoken to in such a demeaning manner makes me care less about the responses I give to an individual and less time I want to spend investigating their concerns. Strange, huh?

Secrets wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:46 pm <snip>

Now this makes sense. I'll see if there's any plans to allow Sequencer to acknowledge skill sequences like the one exampled - and if so how to support them moving forward.

Secrets wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:46 pm Since I feel like the OP's point is not visually explained well, here's what I would like to see happen...

Currently, I have a sequence like so:



The hotbar, by default, shows Force Opportunity in the icon.

This works as intended. Every 2 seconds, the sequence resets and skips abilities on cooldown.

However, let's say I add "Cull the Weak" to this setup. This is an ability that will contextually activate depending on the targets' health.


If I add this ability to my 10s rotation button, I can no longer activate the rest of the sequence - Cull the Weak will never activate until my target reaches 50% health, and thus, the rest of the sequence will never activate.
Cull the Weak should be considered an 'ability on cooldown' while it is unusable. That doesn't appear to be happening, and breaks functionality.


Under this setup, there is no automation. I still have to be at the keyboard and hit the sequence. For the record, NB never had AFK automation in it either - but instead, NB extended scripted conditionals beyond the realm of what a sequencer did.
The above screenshot is tame in comparison to NB and would be the appropriate use case. Besides, others have made more malicious addons that do that way better than NB did.

I am not asking for duration conditionals, or 'cast heal when target is below x' style conditionals. I am asking for the ability to keybind less things - simply because I am a software engineer who has a permanent repetitive strain injury. Mind you, 4 years of my life of that carpal tunnel was spent developing for Return of Reckoning.

Please consider adding this in as a feature.

I think this is a very important feature.

For example and if a AOE slayer add the ID to secuencer, and the target is out of range (5fts) it stop of work. This is crazy because and AOE Slayer hit his target from 25-30fts and when ID appear in secuencer u are stuck in the middle of combat with your main rotation unavailable

Secrets wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:46 pmEvery 2 seconds, the sequence resets and skips abilities on cooldown.

I didn't even realise CD skipping had been added to the sequencer API after it first launched . Combined with timers and it's already turned into a basic priority/stack system :/

Omegus wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:26 am

Secrets wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:46 pmEvery 2 seconds, the sequence resets and skips abilities on cooldown.

I didn't even realise CD skipping had been added to the sequencer API after it first launched . Combined with timers and it's already turned into a basic priority/stack system :/

I mean, that's kind of what a sequencer is...
You sequence the abilities you wish to use in a specific order.

It's no different than old style /cast macros in WoW that executed abilities in the order the macro used them.

PS: Thank you for passing that on Kaelang!

Secrets wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:02 am

Omegus wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:26 am

Secrets wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 4:46 pmEvery 2 seconds, the sequence resets and skips abilities on cooldown.

I didn't even realise CD skipping had been added to the sequencer API after it first launched . Combined with timers and it's already turned into a basic priority/stack system :/

I mean, that's kind of what a sequencer is...
You sequence the abilities you wish to use in a specific order.

It's no different than old style /cast macros in WoW that executed abilities in the order the macro used them.

PS: Thank you for passing that on Kaelang!

Originally the Sequencer was intended to be as dumb as possible, and came from the request of players asking to be able to do abilities 1/2/3/4/5 in order to one key. No conditional checking of any sort, just 1/2/3/4/5 in order. There was even mention that there was no intent/desire to turn it into a WoW-like macro system.

It seems that reset timers and skipping cooldowns have been added. It is no longer just a basic sequencer, but now has basic decision making (using a skill whenever it is off cooldown), but also the ability to reset the sequence on a timer so you do not even need to complete the full sequence. The two combined allow you to prioritise ability use based on current cooldowns and reset/repeat the checks very frequently. This is no longer a sequence as originally intended.

Add in the ability to skip/use abilities based on their built-in conditionals and you're just expanding that ability priority system even further. If the sequencer checked for built-in conditionals and skipped them if they were not met, then you now open the door to Shatter/Sever on cooldown (I believe it has both a cooldown and a requirement that the target is enchanted/blessed?), directional abilities when available, health-based conditionals when available, and so on. Other abilities have built-in conditionals relating to mechanic points, such as needing to be Furious (25+ rage), having combo points available for finishers, needing a target to be cursed (Lion's Fury), etc. Combined with the short timer resets it gets closer and closer to a system that is constantly checking which is the "best" ability to use based on your predefined ordering of the abilities.

Additionally, I would assume that the timer resets and cooldown skipping make it possible to set up ability lists that automatically adjust to cooldown increasers and decreasers? To manage cooldown increasers you just add more different abilities so there is always some valid ability to use for a one-button spammable, and cooldown decreases combined with timer resets would let you spam those good abilities that have had their CD reduced from 5s to 0s without needing to think about it. Even the sequence you gave which had 3-4 abilities on a 10s cooldown automatically adjusts itself to CD increasers and reducers without you needing to think about it, as there's no spammable option in that ability list anyway.

Kaelang wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 6:38 pm

Morradin wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:14 am you are not worth the long and eloquent reply I had originally posted. I realize that you do not have the ability to understand.

Maybe it's because being spoken to in such a demeaning manner makes me care less about the responses I give to an individual and less time I want to spend investigating their concerns. Strange, huh?

My apologies but after patiently explaining that my post had nothing to do with NB, all I got was more "NB does this and NB does that, and NB is this ... and on and on".

Twice I explained that this had nothing to do with NB, but just allowing the same automation in the in game dev created sequencer, that the add ons EZGuard and Triage allowed for healing. And I went ahead and began to write another patient reply explaining the same thing. Half way through I realized that it would make no difference, I would get the same reply about how bad and evil NB is.

Omegus wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 4:16 am Originally the Sequencer was intended to be as dumb as possible, and came from the request of players asking to be able to do abilities 1/2/3/4/5 in order to one key. No conditional checking of any sort, just 1/2/3/4/5 in order. There was even mention that there was no intent/desire to turn it into a WoW-like macro system.

It will always be a slippery slope of what to allow and not. Some of the reasoning behind blocking NB and providing a dumbed down sequencer seems rather arbitrary to me. Some games don't allow for any in-game macroing/automation at all and are more suitable for competitive e-sport type play, but you will always have the option to use external tools to send keystrokes to the game.

For instance building a keystroke sequencer sending 1->2->3 etc or binding one key to sending multiple keystrokes at once with a few milliseconds delay so you can trigger positionals or conditionals (i.e. Sever Blessing) if they are possible to use. This would be the most basic dumb macroing/scripting that will always be available through key/mouse software. If the provided Sequencer Addon can't even do that why would anyone use it?

Altough using external keyboard software might be considered cheating there isn't really any way of enforcing such a rule.