Return of Reckoning

Some interesting ideas here, but the first step should be to bring back the AoE damage that has been nerfed/removed. It was there for a reason (it was a way to break up large zergs) and it being gone has served to highlight the problem.

As for new ideas to combat the problem (and I'm not even sure this is possible), perhaps the devs could modify the loot tables so that there are rewards that you get for kills when you are in a six man or smaller group but don't receive if you are in a warband. Possibly increase the number of medallions smaller groups receive. Or add something similar to the keg end presents, where you get items and potions that are useful in PvP. Anything that would encourage people to play in smaller groups. They could also reduce the amount of renown and experience received when in a warband compared to a smaller group, or increase them for the small group.

The fact of the matter is that in order to get people to stop zerging you either have to punish them for that behavior, or provide a sufficient reward that will appeal to their own self-interest.

Ninjagon wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:28 pm

The LotD design can be set to favor divided forces more than just "zerg them all". But do not forget about most important thing: Fights. No fights, no fun. So if you do not fight (like nonstop running just for quick cap the objectives), you should NOT be able to win.

I'd agree with that, though there are two sides to that coin.

An instance where this same thing came up was in relation to the old Thunder Valley scenario.

In the old version of Thunder Valley it sometimes felt like players were able to run around to win. However, if one side keeps their forces in a ball and refuses to spread out then it is also their own fault for taking a tactically flawed approach to the scenario.

I think the important question here is: do we want tactically interesting gamemodes? And if the answer is yes (personally, I would love to see it) then we must also accept that beating an opponent tactically (rather than through brute force or numbers) is a desirable result of that and not considered a "cheap way to win", so to speak.

Cyrylius wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 3:09 pm
@Caduceus while i agree with you, have you considered focusing a bit more on when people start zerging: it's usually when they start losing. It's a simple and effective way of bolstering strength for average warband, organized or not. While better players should win against worse players maybe having some of those mechanics useable in even fights would make certain situations less one-sided, so that there are still ways to punch above your weight? There are already mechanisms like this in for example keep defence being easier for defenders, maybe extending that in some form to oRvR would alleviate the zerging to some extent too.

I think the issue you are describing is part of the same problem and kind of ties into approach 4 in my OP. Incidentally, I've also tried to address it the past in this thread: https://www.returnofreckoning.com/forum ... 15&t=46641

One of the issues, in my opinion, is a skewed offense/defense balance, which makes fights predictable and tactical surprises less effective. The defensive safety net a 2/2/2 warband has is so great that a lot of mistakes go unpunished, and good moves unrewarded.

In the past, morale bombs used to be a great equalizer, allowing smaller groups and warbands to flatten zergs with good positioning and timing. There was a way to fight back. If the enemy positioned themselves carelessly, it didn't matter if they brought 6 or 30 players, they would all fall to a well-coordinated morale drop. Nowadays these options are severely limited.

While I understand the past form of morale bombing had its issues, I think it may be worth reconsidering this change.

I also think healer survivability is way out of proportion; something which undoubtedly ties into the fact that healers can, for some reason, afford to completely ignore their main stat willpower. In my opinion, the class with the longest range and arguably the biggest impact on the fight should be fragile and dependent on good positioning to stay alive (shield DoK/WP are the exception). If healer survivability is toned down, backlines become more vulnerable and tactical surprises more effective.

A bit of a sidetrack, but it's definitely related and part of the larger issue I see in Return of Reckoning. The question is whether people actually agree this is an issue or not.