Return of Reckoning

just git gud

ExcretusMaximus wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:14 pm

CountTalabecland wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:07 pm In my experience most SMs you come across don't kit themselves out for guard dmg reduction as much.

I did not know this was a thing. How is it done? Just a lot of toughness, or something else?

Only parry/block buff reduce guard damage zince no mitigation at all is applied on guard hits.

I guess he meant buffs to parry, with perfect defenses, or just WoDS in 2H mode (wich is better than SnB with +50% parry).

The thing is, similar to DG build for WH, few players fully understand the potential of the 2H build (for SMs) or DG one (for WHs) (when properly played and specced ofc), wich is lowering the general opinion about those classes, from WB utility perspective.

The overall feeling over the IB is the class being mostly fitted for duos (only buffing 2 players at a time instead of 6+), it brings less to a full party than the 2 other tanks, wich is true in some sense, while having the strongest ST buffs from all three.

The general consensus here is to find the IB suboptimal when it comes to mastery trees ; I agree that having to spec into the 3 masteries feels incredibly frustrating since you cannot reach the higher levels, upping the buffs/damage to desired values, and having to sacrifice too much in order to have a balanced build, while every other class in the game doesnt have to do that (I dont know the BG tho) to feel "optimally specced".

Maybe there are some modifications to do on IB mastery trees, and/or rework a bit some key skills to make them party-wide.

Also, it could be good to give IB the same grudge-building mechanic as the BG (on hit AND on being hit), because being ignored is even more painful for them since they cant use their skills... Providing somehow a "hard counter" to the class, wich feels wrong for many reasons.

ib guarding mdps/rdps/healer is better than any ather tank who dont guard.
ib can be good for st grp
dont play alone join guild like gimle or bene theilax or ather order guild what is not half empty with 2 players.
order always need tanks
if u are guildless than ofc guilds who fill spots whant classes athern than ib(if there is from what they can choose). byt in guild u always got spot as tank.
p.s ib is good as it is, its all player behind it. and any slayer will bue u beer that u guard him and oakfriend him.

normanis wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:39 pm ib guarding mdps/rdps/healer is better than any ather tank who dont guard.
ib can be good for st grp
dont play alone join guild like gimle or bene theilax or ather order guild what is not half empty with 2 players.
order always need tanks
if u are guildless than ofc guilds who fill spots whant classes athern than ib(if there is from what they can choose). byt in guild u always got spot as tank.
p.s ib is good as it is, its all player behind it. and any slayer will bue u beer that u guard him and oakfriend him.

I play with hardcore alliances and I am a last pick if they can’t find the knight or SM. And obviously any tank that can guard is better than any tank that doesn’t?? But every tank can guard so that is something they should all be doing lol. But honestly any order GOOD WB lead should be able to tell you they pick IB last, it’s always “LF KOBS/SM” and if you play this game you know it’s true. I also don’t consider our st buffs the best st buffs because more than half are overwritten. Hell we lose half our kit to everyone’s potions.

The passive effect of auras and blade enchants is just insane compared with IBs buffs. IB can offer aoe snares to a WB, energy restore and toughness buffs if specced right but every other tool is for a small party play and that is a bit of a flaw. If Oath Friend buffs would apply 50% of their effects to the rest of the party that would save the day.

ashton007 wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:45 pm

normanis wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:39 pm ib guarding mdps/rdps/healer is better than any ather tank who dont guard.
ib can be good for st grp
dont play alone join guild like gimle or bene theilax or ather order guild what is not half empty with 2 players.
order always need tanks
if u are guildless than ofc guilds who fill spots whant classes athern than ib(if there is from what they can choose). byt in guild u always got spot as tank.
p.s ib is good as it is, its all player behind it. and any slayer will bue u beer that u guard him and oakfriend him.

I play with hardcore alliances and I am a last pick if they can’t find the knight or SM. And obviously any tank that can guard is better than any tank that doesn’t?? But every tank can guard so that is something they should all be doing lol. But honestly any order GOOD WB lead should be able to tell you they pick IB last, it’s always “LF KOBS/SM” and if you play this game you know it’s true. I also don’t consider our st buffs the best st buffs because more than half are overwritten. Hell we lose half our kit to everyone’s potions.

i agree ib need some minor fixes, and yes kobs is over all buff/debuff machine, sm is for iniative stealing and ww,
kobs>sm>ib in wb play . byt ib shines in ather stuff like buff single target.
lets take destro
chosen= kobs
black orc = sm
always spot for 2h black guard because of aoe crit debuff
where ib fills in order when kobs have function of bg and chosen and sm - blackorc? only as reserve guardbot to make slayer live a bit longer.
in my opinion ib is good in scenarios, duo , or 1vs1 or 6vs6 (kobs cand do all that and better).
p.s 1vs1 is player beghind than class. vollgograd and ather ib2h is for examples.

Can agree on this. If not my guildies/friends i wouldn't had chance to go city on my 78 IB... Even after spamming /5 before city for 20 mins.

My 81 SM or 76 KOTBS got insta invitations...

Except for organized WBs that know situational and good sides of IB the dwarf is rly the least sought out tank on this side - except for ap regen - barely give anything group wise.

It's just buffer/guardbot for slayers.

zgolec wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:52 am Can agree on this. If not my guildies/friends i wouldn't had chance to go city on my 78 IB... Even after spamming /5 before city for 20 mins.

My 81 SM or 76 KOTBS got insta invitations...

Except for organized WBs that know situational and good sides of IB the dwarf is rly the least sought out tank on this side - except for ap regen - barely give anything group wise.

It's just buffer/guardbot for slayers.

It’s hardly even that. A good SL still wants ww to spread ID and the knight ap aura and resists are a staple to any group. It really leaves us the niche tank. So many arguments about it being good in small scale but that isn’t the focal point for balance in this game (or that’s just another lie told here). The best use of IB really is the punt, and as proven by hundreds, the knight does this best. The crit buff should atleast give the effect your party. Destro has crit buff/debuff that stacks, only it works for their entire WB. They also have better crit debuffing via chosen. Any way you look at this IB is the least useful. And that is out of all 6 tanks, not just the 3 on order.

ashton007 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:11 am

zgolec wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:52 am Can agree on this. If not my guildies/friends i wouldn't had chance to go city on my 78 IB... Even after spamming /5 before city for 20 mins.

My 81 SM or 76 KOTBS got insta invitations...

Except for organized WBs that know situational and good sides of IB the dwarf is rly the least sought out tank on this side - except for ap regen - barely give anything group wise.

It's just buffer/guardbot for slayers.

It’s hardly even that. A good SL still wants ww to spread ID and the knight ap aura and resists are a staple to any group. It really leaves us the niche tank. So many arguments about it being good in small scale but that isn’t the focal point for balance in this game (or that’s just another lie told here). The best use of IB really is the punt, and as proven by hundreds, the knight does this best. The crit buff should atleast give the effect your party. Destro has crit buff/debuff that stacks, only it works for their entire WB. They also have better crit debuffing via chosen. Any way you look at this IB is the least useful. And that is out of all 6 tanks, not just the 3 on order.

IB has better buff for SL than any other tank, for the melee ball the 25% parry and 10% Crit chance is a blast to kill the SL buffed, as he easily Parry destro buff sheer and hit like a truck even without WW SL damage burst is better with IB.
Main problem is IB buff are not as long as they need to be. They may need to be 15sec, even with a nerf of Parry buff ( like 15% and not 25%), it will be a better Grudge management and a better IB life.
Cause atm you can't damage when buffing, you can't really help healer when buffing and can't do like nothing when buffing, in Large scale i mean for sure, so IB is placed like a small scale tank in every mental mindset.

Kornaker wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:15 am

ashton007 wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:11 am

zgolec wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:52 am Can agree on this. If not my guildies/friends i wouldn't had chance to go city on my 78 IB... Even after spamming /5 before city for 20 mins.

My 81 SM or 76 KOTBS got insta invitations...

Except for organized WBs that know situational and good sides of IB the dwarf is rly the least sought out tank on this side - except for ap regen - barely give anything group wise.

It's just buffer/guardbot for slayers.

It’s hardly even that. A good SL still wants ww to spread ID and the knight ap aura and resists are a staple to any group. It really leaves us the niche tank. So many arguments about it being good in small scale but that isn’t the focal point for balance in this game (or that’s just another lie told here). The best use of IB really is the punt, and as proven by hundreds, the knight does this best. The crit buff should atleast give the effect your party. Destro has crit buff/debuff that stacks, only it works for their entire WB. They also have better crit debuffing via chosen. Any way you look at this IB is the least useful. And that is out of all 6 tanks, not just the 3 on order.

IB has better buff for SL than any other tank, for the melee ball the 25% parry and 10% Crit chance is a blast to kill the SL buffed, as he easily Parry destro buff sheer and hit like a truck even without WW SL damage burst is better with IB.
Main problem is IB buff are not as long as they need to be. They may need to be 15sec, even with a nerf of Parry buff ( like 15% and not 25%), it will be a better Grudge management and a better IB life.
Cause atm you can't damage when buffing, you can't really help healer when buffing and can't do like nothing when buffing, in Large scale i mean for sure, so IB is placed like a small scale tank in every mental mindset.

Imagine thinking your entire class and spec is tied to only one of the dps in the game... lol
Anyways the entire point was for large scale and you basically agree. The game is not balanced for small mans and the IB is so small man focused its a clear issue.