GamesBond wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:59 am
A bit long but here's how I would explain it, as this is a double edged sword.
Technically, intentionally throwing any game mode is punishable, but the GMs can analyze the situation and thus have a better decision that is fair for both parties: The reported player and everyone else. There are several ways to win a siege, to bait the enemies and to win the overall campaign. These ways are not carved into stones; Each warband leader leads in their own way, some warband leaders rush the ram to the keep's door while other warband leaders prefer to keep roaming for hours with their warbands, rather than laying siege.
If you disagree with a warband leader, you can leave their warband and join someone else. If you believe all warband leaders are leading wrong, you can become a warband leader and you would be known whether you were amazing or terrible, so take care of your warband and its members.
After reading a few POVs, it's normal for the ones who weren't involved in the communication and decision to feel betrayed or frustrated. You can record and report the behavior of that player who threw the ram away. Your report needs context and a video recording, or a GM watching the incident live. The rest falls on the GM team though and you shouldn't expect any specific decision to be made based on how you personally are frustrated.
Now if I were you, I would put myself in their shoes first and act as someone responsible to entertain and guide 23 other people (or less/more) throughout the night. I would also look at the bigger image, before reporting that incident. What did it prevent, what would have happened if the ram wasn't destroyed and more importantly, what did we deny? Such incidents are often meant to deny the enemy contribution and bags which is a smart move.
TL;DR
The campaign is completely ran by the players, if you believe something is absolutely a toxic behavior that is meant to throw away hundreds of peoples efforts. Please do report it while making sure the proper context and proof are both present and honest. There is no 'one way' to lay siege and win a zone, there are several ways and many are correct. 'Warband leaders' are 'leaders', in a way they are higher than the average player and this is necessary to accept in order to maintain an organized faction on the battlefields.
If you're against all of the above, you should become a warband leader and experience the pressure by yourself. You will be judged for every decision and every fight, you will be spoken against and behind your back, you will be tea-bagged when you die, you will be subject to a lot of heated discussions. But at the end of the day, you will be the one helping the campaign, the server and the players.
In other words report the scapegoat and try not to lose the hopeless fight.
Pretty sure I hinted that there are different tactical decisions and while one can report any other player on the server, a proper context and video would be needed for the case mentioned in this thread. Yet the main point remains whether the GM sees the report as a valid one or just a misunderstanding of the battlefield. After all RvR is super dynamic and there are no specific rules to how someone is allowed to lead and what resources can someone use/bait/spend for the sake of the campaign in general. I have also asked the players to see a different perspective before reporting.
By the time the report will be sent the game would already be lost, the account of the scapegoat is expandable, why bother?
I was there losing, I still think its fair just as much as nothing is done about xrealming. it is fair and square to sabotage enemy rvr, spy on their plans/discord, or to create a wb and feed sheeps to your guild.. its part of the game.
Besides how can a GM analyze somebody disconnecting or just playing bad deliberately?
- not going to end well, let alone the scapegoats will continue to show so it wont be efficient either.
In other words report the scapegoat and try not to lose the hopeless fight.
Pretty sure I hinted that there are different tactical decisions and while one can report any other player on the server, a proper context and video would be needed for the case mentioned in this thread. Yet the main point remains whether the GM sees the report as a valid one or just a misunderstanding of the battlefield. After all RvR is super dynamic and there are no specific rules to how someone is allowed to lead and what resources can someone use/bait/spend for the sake of the campaign in general. I have also asked the players to see a different perspective before reporting.
By the time the report will be sent the game would already be lost, the account of the scapegoat is expandable, why bother?
I was there losing, I still think its fair just as much as nothing is done about xrealming. it is fair and square to sabotage enemy rvr, spy on their plans/discord, or to create a wb and feed sheeps to your guild.. its part of the game.
Besides how can a GM analyze somebody disconnecting or just playing bad deliberately?
- not going to end well, let alone the scapegoats will continue to show so it wont be efficient either.
All incidents occur and then get reported, reviewed and taken care of. There can't be instant support and appearance of Game Masters if they are personally not available at that time.
I believe you're aligning with what I was saying in my first reply, it's part of the game to have dynamic strategies. But if someone is sure that a player is griefing for the sole purpose of wasting time, disrupting faction-wide efforts or just constantly stealing the ram for no reason, they can report them and then it's up to the GMs to handle each case. But as a player, you've done your part to attempt to have each suspected throwing case reviewed and the player would be contacted by the GM which makes them think twice the next time, whether an action has been taken against them or not.
Acidic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:06 pm
For consistency when Destro did this, the message was very crystal clear. Could not find the post so from memory was the following.
Actively taking the ram to be destroyed (Destro case they took it to PVE) was considered greifing . It was not appropriate for a player to deny other players the chance to continue the siege. So if they wanted to stop the siege at say 2% they had to convince the realm to abandon the siege and effectively leave the ram in place.
The justification was that the approach was to not have grey areas.
Recently, a warband leader has been warned after 'baiting the ram' in order to get more fights, it's something he's done frequently until we flew over his ram and witnessed the baiting. That's an issue, he's not accounting for the other players' times.
It's all case by case, as it should have always been. I'm sure that there have been tens of rams dragged out to PvE area, but you didn't have a post for each incident for you to judge whether it's being taken care of properly or not. You also do not know how the communication internally happens. And of course you do not know the proof shared with the GMs to back up whatever decision they take. All you have in hand, is what you've been told or what you've seen from your own perspective.
There has been a short period of time where openly talking about throwing was in its peak time, mass mutes and suspensions took care of that trend and now the channels are pretty clean. Maybe what you've mentioned was in an era where randomly picking up a ram and destroying it was being excessively done and was before the keep defense bags?
At the end of the day, there's the report button for the players to use. What happens afterwards is handled by the GMs and their objective interpretation of each report.
Sometimes, the easiest explanation is the most accurate one.
There really are WAY TOO MANY people playing this game, that do not know what they are doing. I really believe that the person who grabbed the ram and went off, was doing it just to seem important by doing something noticeable by everyone. They want to play the hero, and basically have no idea of the intricate ins and outs of the game.
And then, we have the griefers. People who do things like this JUST to see the rage in chat. They get off on it. Basically people who have given up on learning to play the game successfully, and just play to cause grief.
Pretty sure I hinted that there are different tactical decisions and while one can report any other player on the server, a proper context and video would be needed for the case mentioned in this thread. Yet the main point remains whether the GM sees the report as a valid one or just a misunderstanding of the battlefield. After all RvR is super dynamic and there are no specific rules to how someone is allowed to lead and what resources can someone use/bait/spend for the sake of the campaign in general. I have also asked the players to see a different perspective before reporting.
By the time the report will be sent the game would already be lost, the account of the scapegoat is expandable, why bother?
I was there losing, I still think its fair just as much as nothing is done about xrealming. it is fair and square to sabotage enemy rvr, spy on their plans/discord, or to create a wb and feed sheeps to your guild.. its part of the game.
Besides how can a GM analyze somebody disconnecting or just playing bad deliberately?
- not going to end well, let alone the scapegoats will continue to show so it wont be efficient either.
All incidents occur and then get reported, reviewed and taken care of. There can't be instant support and appearance of Game Masters if they are personally not available at that time.
I believe you're aligning with what I was saying in my first reply, it's part of the game to have dynamic strategies. But if someone is sure that a player is griefing for the sole purpose of wasting time, disrupting faction-wide efforts or just constantly stealing the ram for no reason, they can report them and then it's up to the GMs to handle each case. But as a player, you've done your part to attempt to have each suspected throwing case reviewed and the player would be contacted by the GM which makes them think twice the next time, whether an action has been taken against them or not.
Acidic wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:06 pm
For consistency when Destro did this, the message was very crystal clear. Could not find the post so from memory was the following.
Actively taking the ram to be destroyed (Destro case they took it to PVE) was considered greifing . It was not appropriate for a player to deny other players the chance to continue the siege. So if they wanted to stop the siege at say 2% they had to convince the realm to abandon the siege and effectively leave the ram in place.
The justification was that the approach was to not have grey areas.
Recently, a warband leader has been warned after 'baiting the ram' in order to get more fights, it's something he's done frequently until we flew over his ram and witnessed the baiting. That's an issue, he's not accounting for the other players' times.
It's all case by case, as it should have always been. I'm sure that there have been tens of rams dragged out to PvE area, but you didn't have a post for each incident for you to judge whether it's being taken care of properly or not. You also do not know how the communication internally happens. And of course you do not know the proof shared with the GMs to back up whatever decision they take. All you have in hand, is what you've been told or what you've seen from your own perspective.
There has been a short period of time where openly talking about throwing was in its peak time, mass mutes and suspensions took care of that trend and now the channels are pretty clean. Maybe what you've mentioned was in an era where randomly picking up a ram and destroying it was being excessively done and was before the keep defense bags?
At the end of the day, there's the report button for the players to use. What happens afterwards is handled by the GMs and their objective interpretation of each report.
As I stated earlier by the time this report is sent (assuming making a video during rvr wont burn my drive) the siege is lost, their friends won, and they will probably continue to do so by the time report will be reviewed, potentially denied too, I wont bother reporting it neither suggest any solution since ignorance rules here. (its not personal)
Scapegoats are new accounts (as I implied earlier) leveled a bit by ruining scenarios, their sole purpose is to be expandable - they couldnt care less about punishment in the first place.
Morradin wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:59 pm
Sometimes, the easiest explanation is the most accurate one.
There really are WAY TOO MANY people playing this game, that do not know what they are doing. I really believe that the person who grabbed the ram and went off, was doing it just to seem important by doing something noticeable by everyone. They want to play the hero, and basically have no idea of the intricate ins and outs of the game.
And then, we have the griefers. People who do things like this JUST to see the rage in chat. They get off on it. Basically people who have given up on learning to play the game successfully, and just play to cause grief.
No, it was intentional, the ones not knowing what to do were caught in an xrealmer wb and their friends.
The scapegoat even bothered to dye all green to mark himself so they wont hit him, named 'Kotbs' obviously not a rookie name and made his move once the greenskins held OT.
Without a report with sufficient evidence, we're not going to take action. Hearsay is not evidence. We've always worked this way. Video recording software is free and incredibly easy to setup. Youtube is free to upload to with a free account. If you see something happening that you really think needs to be reported, make a video with sufficient evidence that we can act on it.
If you're not willing to gather evidence and think it's pointless, then don't bother posting on the forum about it either. Contact a GM directly who will gather evidence.
If you can't reach a GM in-game, you can reach me on Discord and I will either personally check it out, or make sure someone available can do so in a reasonable amount of time. If you're expecting an instant GM response, that's unreasonable. Change your expectations, do your part to make the server better.
You can find the TOS here. Actively being a jerk is clearly not allowed, report it.
