Return of Reckoning

wh/we do crazy ST dmg alrdy, all they need is aoe capability to compete with slayers/wls for a dps spot in city wb, just give them some spammable aoe attack will be a good start.

Hulgore wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:23 am
And who are you to say that the class should be forced to be played solo ? I like playing solo, I also like playing with people sometimes, I don't think its hard to understand, but suddenly people explain here that the class should remain unwanted everywhere because it is its nature (???) ; I proposed an addition of a few tactics to increase the versatility of the class, if you don't want to use them don't, if you want to do fort with people then you can use these, when the fort is done you go back solo, thats it

Who am I ? Nobody just a little WH

Currently WH / WE have their place in a party or WB (adapt yourself, you can play in wb. It's up to you to put on the corresponding equipment and research the effects before the damage)


These are the WH / WE groups that I'm against, in a class that plays a huge percentage in gank (2/3/4/5/6 + vs1 or 2)

No interest for players or developers. (spend time on a class overhaul for players who gank only. Waste of energy for developers who are volunteers)



For me personally the class is already very efficient in AOE debuff , ST damage etc ...


the problem is not WH / WE but the successive up of the dps range

WE/WH do not need any more damage. They need utility or QoL fixes at most. Preferably something that makes them wanted by groups.

My idea was a heal debuff, but not your typical one. Make a heal debuff that reduces heal crits, since most healers forego willpower anyway in favor of crits. This would help level out spike healing back to full and fits the archtype of the class. Make Razor Strike (and WE mirror) hit 3 targets at base like it is now, and make the talent for it to proc (probably a stacking effect to not make a one and done) on Razor Strike. This gives Razor Strike a purpose outside of groups still and will make them more desired in groups, for debuffing on multiple targets.

Or something a little different, like a debuff the more heals you receive, the more damage you take.

I know it's a long shot and maybe not the greatest ideas, but this is the kind of ideas we need. Something other than straight "more aoe damages" and it fits the theme. The problem is it's got to be strong enough to not be ignored by groups when choosing classes and that's tricky to balance.

XsorrowerX wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:39 pm WE/WH do not need any more damage. They need utility or QoL fixes at most. Preferably something that makes them wanted by groups.

My idea was a heal debuff, but not your typical one. Make a heal debuff that reduces heal crits, since most healers forego willpower anyway in favor of crits. This would help level out spike healing back to full and fits the archtype of the class. Make Razor Strike (and WE mirror) hit 3 targets at base like it is now, and make the talent for it to proc (probably a stacking effect to not make a one and done) on Razor Strike. This gives Razor Strike a purpose outside of groups still and will make them more desired in groups, for debuffing on multiple targets.

Or something a little different, like a debuff the more heals you receive, the more damage you take.

I know it's a long shot and maybe not the greatest ideas, but this is the kind of ideas we need. Something other than straight "more aoe damages" and it fits the theme. The problem is it's got to be strong enough to not be ignored by groups when choosing classes and that's tricky to balance.

WH / WE have access to 2 debuff heals, the type of debuff you are proposing is too important and would create an imbalance

WH / WE are excellent, only require 5% crit based on character and 10% extra speed in stealth to help with placement

Personally if the class does not suit you, change because it will never be a main dps class but a dps support class in WB or in party ST

If wh/we will get aoe or more utitily consider that stealth should no longer be available on such utility methods. WH/WE are already super strong and annoying. Buffing them even more not a valid option, only if they have to give up stealth.

How can you even consider buffing a class which runs solo into full zerg to just nuke one single person successfully and stealths just away !? Are you kidding me ? Don't get that.

-> Remove Stealth Ability, survival abilities when enabling aoe/more dmg

jughurta69 wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:50 pm

XsorrowerX wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 5:39 pm WE/WH do not need any more damage. They need utility or QoL fixes at most. Preferably something that makes them wanted by groups.

My idea was a heal debuff, but not your typical one. Make a heal debuff that reduces heal crits, since most healers forego willpower anyway in favor of crits. This would help level out spike healing back to full and fits the archtype of the class. Make Razor Strike (and WE mirror) hit 3 targets at base like it is now, and make the talent for it to proc (probably a stacking effect to not make a one and done) on Razor Strike. This gives Razor Strike a purpose outside of groups still and will make them more desired in groups, for debuffing on multiple targets.

Or something a little different, like a debuff the more heals you receive, the more damage you take.

I know it's a long shot and maybe not the greatest ideas, but this is the kind of ideas we need. Something other than straight "more aoe damages" and it fits the theme. The problem is it's got to be strong enough to not be ignored by groups when choosing classes and that's tricky to balance.

WH / WE have access to 2 debuff heals, the type of debuff you are proposing is too important and would create an imbalance

WH / WE are excellent, only require 5% crit based on character and 10% extra speed in stealth to help with placement

Personally if the class does not suit you, change because it will never be a main dps class but a dps support class in WB or in party ST

Like I said, it would be tricky to balance. They were random ideas. I know they have multiple heal debuffs, but I was trying to give them something to fit the rogue/assassin archetype and to be useful in group, multi target situations. The heal debuffs currently favor single target. WH/WE have 3 trees, why can't one be group oriented? You can kind of debuff with Dragongun currently, but then you have to use a bullet that is not even for that tree and it doesn't last long at all.

I am not talking extreme debuffs nor did I give numbers, just something that looks worth adding to a group dynamic for warband play. Also, I don't really understand your last comment as my ideas were support based. They may be too strong, but the point was they need something unique to the class in support role warband style play. For single target, they are pretty good already, no doubt. Other classes have different roles in different trees, so I'm not sure why WE/WH can't benefit the same. Overall, I'm happy with the class and playstyle, that doesn't mean that there is not room for improving things, nor do I expect any drastic changes.

Atropik wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:15 pm

Hulgore wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:14 am That pistol advantage used to be set into the game when WE had only 5ft range on their abilities, now they overall have more range than a class with a pistol, and their throwing daggers can proc poison which is not the case with Snap Shot ability, so a skinny witch elf has actually more range damages than a pistol class, but yes, tell me i am the joke here

Yes you are, lol. WE was given range in exchange wh was given 50% crit tactic and all the fancy pistol shots became Str but not Ballistic skill based abilities. Want to roll it back? you really do?

that was basicly a bug fix which happened just 1-2 month after release. so bringing that up and act like that was some kind of qol change is a really cheap attempt to ignore the valid request to give the pistol some range as it is a ranged weapon. nice try bro

inoeth wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 7:13 pm that was basicly a bug fix which happened just 1-2 month after release. so bringing that up and act like that was some kind of qol change is a really cheap attempt to ignore the valid request to give the pistol some range as it is a ranged weapon. nice try bro

that bug fix took place 2 years after the release and was also known as a 1.2 patch note, here what wh had before:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080915145 ... px?id=8137

Changing combat formula for variety of ranged abilities for wh was done separately and also took Mythic couple of years to be done, even here in ror Abso had a Dodge check instead of parry for at least two years. So no, that was perfectly balanced attempt.

Furthermore, i honestly believe if some one would like to perform his pewpew with a pistol from 45+ft distance, this fancy shooting shoul be based on ballistic skill and not str, am i wrong?

i played the original WAR only maybe the first 3 month and in that time the change from ballistic to str was made i pretty much remember that.
you know changes are made because something is off, in case of fanatical cleansing: WH might have had too low dmg compared to WE.

if you give the wh fancy abilities that would justify a switch to pistol as the main weapon, i would totally be finde with ballistic being the main stat, everything else is just you wanting the wh to get nerfed.

you want WH to be a serious threat to healers. give them an ability or tactic to remove every detaunt they have on them. than the viability of WE and WH will go through the roof for cities. the counter play would be that the tank would actually have to swap guard since the healer cant detaunt and ignore