Return of Reckoning

People can pull out the statistic and do with them whatever they like...

From my personal observations

Order careers are not as plug-and-play. It takes a tiny bit more effort and restrictions to build something decent on Order. Yes every career has a useful spec, but not everything can be overly stacked. Yes you can get away with BW/Slayer/Wl stacking. But after that each career becomes a niece pick. You can slot them in the singletarget assist group and maybe get 1 of each career on top of you solid top3 picks to carry the ball-fight.

since city-release Aoe stacking dots from SW has been overhauled, IB got ap pump role slight upgrade from smallscale duty on top of his previous pros. and WH has gotten an aoe armordebuff.
So I would say the devs have done something for order warband viability. The realm is just not as plug-and-play as destro.

on top of that, the totally imballance internally on Order-realm between the Archtypes (Tank, mdps, rdps, healers) lead to a situation where Order requires a little more effort in building a good comp. But you also struggle to actually build "Any" comp because of overflow of rdps and not enough meta ball-fighting classes and support for them.

IC 2star a few hours ago was a good example. Order pushes to the City, Destro cityloggers coming online making order outnumbered on the webpage. And first instance in phase1 matchmaking doesnt fire before 15minuts or so simply because noone built a 24man on order in time. (phase 1 matchmaking 24man stack vs 24man stack or no instance untill phase2 begins)

if it has escaped ANYONES attention Destro are more keen on not trying their hardest in forts, because they KNOW how order is massively demoralized and destro city pops are a big winchance. Not just for 6invader you would get for a fort, but on average more royals from being destro in city and downgrading royals into invader if you need to. Destro loosing forts or halfassing it, and then order being outnumbered when its city time is insanely obvious about what the situation is like.


I spent the spring doing cities on Order, i saw the trend backk then. Took a break over summer and fall, and the trend is even worse now. Every warbandleader on order is begging for tanks and healers to fill their warbands, half of it might be dodging and the other half might just be the fact that it actually takes 15minuts into the queue before you have your 8-8-8 setup. And that is just for the first warband.

Last 30days or so ive been queueing casually on destro with an aoe msh assisting a dps dok in pure lfg friendslist/lfg 12man. The fights have been "close" in phase2 matchmaking when order gets a 12man to match destro. The general expectation on Destro seem to be "yey we got a pop, lets see what we got"
where as on order you get "lets queue, ok we got a pop. lets see how bad it is"

Order can win their instances, but the situation requires a better archtype split and a little more effort in building the comps.
As for winning city as a whole, that will not happen on Order as long as 2-2-2 is not required to open instances

Banjomissen wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:38 pm

Nekkma wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:32 pm

Banjomissen wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:22 pm There must be a reason why players would rather risk not getting a pop than playing Order.

Yes, and the reason is that for the avarage player it is a substantial gear grind. Since cities got released I basically stoped playing alts (until this december) and I still only have one character with "full" sov/wl (and exactly 8 pieces so no alternative set up) and 1 with 3 peieces.. Even tho I currently play order I have sometimes switched to do city on destro because I'm not sure I can be bothered grinding sov on another character.

So you mainly play order atm but you don't want to gear another character so you switch to Destro to gear a character that already has the gear it needs or do you switch to the character that needs it even though you don't bother gearing another character?

The gear grind doesn't get any easier if you spend 30min in queue only to be left out.

As I wrote, I still need gear on both my former destro "mains" (one is a tank and have only off sov/wl yet for instance). And yes, I rather continue gearing the same characters than starting gearing a new one as I just end up with a few pointless sov pieces per character that way. Anyway, the point isn't specifically myself but rather that for alot of players the gear grind takes so long time that alting is out of the question.

wonshot wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:46 pm
if it has escaped ANYONES attention Destro are more keen on not trying their hardest in forts,

With current design defend a fort and deny city hurt players progression (at least in gear progression) => let the campaign continue bring better rewards (even if you lose city) so why is the reason to defend fort?? realm pride?? im sorry but if you hide the best rewards behind a fort defeat its obvious what will happen. (the order moral bs means nothing in this matters)

emiliorv wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:03 pm

wonshot wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:46 pm
if it has escaped ANYONES attention Destro are more keen on not trying their hardest in forts,

With current design defend a fort and deny city hurt players progression (at least in gear progression) => let the campaign continue bring better rewards (even if you lose city) so why is the reason to defend fort?? realm pride?? im sorry but if you hide the best rewards behind a fort defeat its obvious what will happen. (the order moral bs means nothing in this matters)

Agreed realmpride is probably the reason for a few people but the reason orderlings defend so strong, and destro laugh in jail. Is related to the win-rate of each realm in city that follows the fortresses.

Gurf wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:07 pm So predictable, like clockwork the Destro Lobbyists come in , "Order only do bad Pug warbands and strange setups", that explains everything about City resuts

So when Destro were losing 80% Forts that was Destro only doing Pug Warbands and strange setups also I suppose

For a lot of them, yes, it was.

Banjomissen wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:22 pm

Rasenmeister wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:13 pm Today i fight in /5 wb vs more strange /5
Q at start siege, IC1 instance in 15 min of waiting.

This is not destro side problem

And the reason for destro not getting a pop is the faction balance. When a city pop there's always 10 - 20% more Destro players even if it's IC siege.

Yep. Last night, I watched the population swing at leas 10 points in about 10 minutes as the Maw was falling.

Gurf wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:44 am Those stats and breakdown aren't publicly available.

Previous stats for City siege player collected were around and average of 75% Destro City win, Order went through a two month period when they had some 50-50, I think even once or twice Order won more than Destro. Now we are probably worse than ever with most Cities 75-85% Destro win. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836 but old stats

Some of the Destro lobbyist will probably come in now and say it is purely 100% a Premade vs Pug issue with absolutely nothing at all to do with faction balance.

Destro lobbyist here. I strongly believe it is premade vs pug issue. I join always a strong premade in city, and we face pugs wb all the time. Yesterday the apex was reached: our enemy wb was 24 I mean TWENTYFOUR DPS. I don't have any more comments to say.

Player behavior is also a game balance issue. Players do not behave at random, their behavior is guided by the experience of playing the game.

engharat wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:08 am

Gurf wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:44 am Those stats and breakdown aren't publicly available.

Previous stats for City siege player collected were around and average of 75% Destro City win, Order went through a two month period when they had some 50-50, I think even once or twice Order won more than Destro. Now we are probably worse than ever with most Cities 75-85% Destro win. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836 but old stats

Some of the Destro lobbyist will probably come in now and say it is purely 100% a Premade vs Pug issue with absolutely nothing at all to do with faction balance.

Destro lobbyist here. I strongly believe it is premade vs pug issue. I join always a strong premade in city, and we face pugs wb all the time. Yesterday the apex was reached: our enemy wb was 24 I mean TWENTYFOUR DPS. I don't have any more comments to say.

So that’s where all the sought after dps classes went! No wonder the wbs looking for slayers couldn’t find them /s

game need raid que system
30 min all que,
1. 24men has first hand
2. 12 /18/6 men second hand . missing players replace with pugs 2/2/2 or 6men . for example u are 6 men u que and u can be united with 18men 3x more 6men or 12men and 1 and 6men. ( 24 /18/12/6/ men has priority for que)
3. rest is solo who need fill their spots in bracket. for example there is 100 soloers que byt there is only 10 tanks and 20 healers left so city is for 8 tanks 8 healers and 8 dps. rest players will not have city ( there shoud be masage city need tanks or healers) rest players if they whant city they have 10min left to log tanks/heals or skip city.
p.s byt prioritet should be full grps who are in que bracket, soloers should fill spots in que system and wait till pop or log heal/tank ( byt thy shoul know that city need more tanks or healz)
i hope i explained well to understand. lets be real city is end game and should be balanced.
also if order know what class need in que to get royals, maby some from those 100dps will log tanks/heals .
or nerf msquig destro already has too many melle.( wich 1 is easer maik normal que system or nerf destro?)