WH and WE (Discussion)

[Xergon]

The WE has a small bug (internal cooldown after a Kiss proc) in the Kisses making her somewhat weaker. A benefit of the WH is that he has some short-ranged options.

Both classes need some melee snare to be more viable. Even it is on a cooldown.

It's not a bug, its intended change here on RoR.

[Squizzel26]

They should do what Mythic should have done from the start and get rid of stealth. Make both classes agile glass cannon dps that specialise in executing low health targets.

To be clear i'm not a hater, I played wh on live to rr85. The class is so much fun to play when you want to run solo but it's unbelievable frustrating to play against. Especially as a low level character who has zero chance against a well geared ganking wh/we.

"Make both classes agile glass cannon dps that specialise in executing low health targets"- and just exactly are those classes suppose to get to those targets without stealth, and why exactly would anyone play those over a st sorc/bw?

"Unbelievable frustrating to play against. Especially as a low level character who has zero chance against a well geared ganking wh/we."- LTP issue on your side. On any of my toons I can deal with whs just fine. And anything low lvl will die vs a well geared high lvl, so what are you trying to say exactly?

I mean I was mostly just agreeing with your second point that both classes lack wb utility as is. I always wished they operated like more traditional dps with no cheesy stealth mechanics.

As to the second point it's not a l2p issue for me mate, I was talking from the perspective of the wh from live. Back then then only thing I couldn't blow up in seconds was sov tanks and doks. Not sure what it's like on ROR as I didn't roll one specifically because I wanted to play a class that had wb utility. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I never understod why they put an obviously solo focused class in a game that was so obviously not solo focused.

Regardless I fear I'm derailing the thread so I'm going to gtfo.

[Seravajan]

The WE has a small bug (internal cooldown after a Kiss proc) in the Kisses making her somewhat weaker. A benefit of the WH is that he has some short-ranged options.

Both classes need some melee snare to be more viable. Even it is on a cooldown.

It's not a bug, its intended change here on RoR.

Odd, in some other posts they believe, it is a bug. If that CD is intended then it should be added to the ability description.

[siglade]

Anyway to add something to WE compared to wh- racial tactics. Wh got racial absorb- 375 absorb with 3 sec CD, while WE got 10% extra healing (as in, DE racial tactics are amazingly bad).

WE got absorb on being crit, but 600 absorb isn't anywhere near close to covering for 2 k crits WE can get from different classes. And once defensive WE/wh starts adding FS ranks, WE absorb become less useful with each rank, while wh absorb keeps being good.

Don't play defensive and you will see how good is the absorb tactic on WE...

[Hardkoar]

They should do what Mythic should have done from the start and get rid of stealth. Make both classes agile glass cannon dps that specialise in executing low health targets.

To be clear i'm not a hater, I played wh on live to rr85. The class is so much fun to play when you want to run solo but it's unbelievable frustrating to play against. Especially as a low level character who has zero chance against a well geared ganking wh/we.

"Make both classes agile glass cannon dps that specialise in executing low health targets"- and just exactly are those classes suppose to get to those targets without stealth, and why exactly would anyone play those over a st sorc/bw?

"Unbelievable frustrating to play against. Especially as a low level character who has zero chance against a well geared ganking wh/we."- LTP issue on your side. On any of my toons I can deal with whs just fine. And anything low lvl will die vs a well geared high lvl, so what are you trying to say exactly?

I mean I was mostly just agreeing with your second point that both classes lack wb utility as is. I always wished they operated like more traditional dps with no cheesy stealth mechanics.

As to the second point it's not a l2p issue for me mate, I was talking from the perspective of the wh from live. Back then then only thing I couldn't blow up in seconds was sov tanks and doks. Not sure what it's like on ROR as I didn't roll one specifically because I wanted to play a class that had wb utility. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I never understod why they put an obviously solo focused class in a game that was so obviously not solo focused.

Regardless I fear I'm derailing the thread so I'm going to gtfo.

The point of a we/wh is ganking, flaking, small guerriglia fights. For that to happen u need to be able to kill **** alone. People are supposed to fear going out solo because they know there will be gankers ready to jump them, forcing them to regroup and therefor helping your factiong this way. Obviously this is not the case when the class is not strong enough to scare anything but a lowbie.

Stealth also is a great tool to scout/report-

[Zxul]

Anyway to add something to WE compared to wh- racial tactics. Wh got racial absorb- 375 absorb with 3 sec CD, while WE got 10% extra healing (as in, DE racial tactics are amazingly bad).

WE got absorb on being crit, but 600 absorb isn't anywhere near close to covering for 2 k crits WE can get from different classes. And once defensive WE/wh starts adding FS ranks, WE absorb become less useful with each rank, while wh absorb keeps being good.

Don't play defensive and you will see how good is the absorb tactic on WE...

Without playing defensive, that tactic is 600-1200 absorb total per fight, since it had a 3 sec CD, and either WE or the target won't live for all that long. Now not just that, but absorb is also after toughness (which nondefensive WE doesn't has) but before armor/resists, so it is worth even less then 60-120 extra wounds. Somehow, I don't see the greatness.

[abezverkhiy]

I think the thing WH lacks comparing with WE is kisses. And the thing WE lacks is Seekers Blade.

Not a big fan of bullets because damage is not high enough. I mean it’s alright for an Abso spam build but that’s it. Kisses damage is way better imo

[Sarnai]

And the thing WE lacks is Seekers Blade.

WE being the only mdps without an undefendable attack is certainly something that should be looked at.

[Deadpoet]

If you have played this game long enough you will remember this quote which appeared in loading screens: "knowing your class is good, Knowing others is better", or something like that.
Imho WE is better suited to their role than WH. Not because of abilities (they both have very good abilities), but because of the foes they usually have to fight.
Random lowbie isolated squishies will be easy for both classes. Geared high toughness target will be hard for both too. The main difference is that WH frequently has to butt heads with usual the destro roamers, which are intrinsically harder to deal with than the order classes WEs normally encounters competing for the same niche. Shamans and Squigherders have the tools to make WHs life more difficult (autodetaunt, run away tactic, tankiness+selfheal+high armor in mSHs). 2handed chosens are really tough to crack, tank magi are solo monsters, WEs are a nightmare and can agile escape, etc. Nicelook pointed that out once, and truer words were never said. I've played both classes and agree. And this is specially true because we're talkin about 1v1 especialists, where classes match ups are even more important.

[VindicoAtrum]

And the thing WE lacks is Seekers Blade.

WE being the only mdps without an undefendable attack is certainly something that should be looked at.

That is a minor issue at best. You might get a tiny percentage more success at killing certain classes when they're alone but nothing else will change.