Rydiak wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:47 pm
Mythrendir wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:20 pm
ReturnOfReckoning wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:58 pm
[Weekend Warfront: Return to Nordenwatch]
[Disciple of Khaine]
- Blood Offering: This ability no longer gives an extra tick of Soul Essence when it is interrupted. Casting it on the move only gives one tick now.
- Fist of Khaine: Lowered Soul Essence cost to 15.
- Consume Essence: Increased cost from 30 SE to 35 SE.
- Devour Essence: This is now classed as a Blessing and can be severed.
Let me start by saying I appreciate all your work but I need to express a frustration that I and many others are feelings atm about WP/DOK changes.
It was clear that people asked for the changes from the last patch on DOK and WarriorPriest to be reverted, and Devs' response to the community is to further/continue to nerf the class to the ground....?
All credibility in term of balancing the game is lost when you're doing changes to a small subspec species of dps/shield spec WP/DOk while we have other priorities, i.e. ranged kiting+infinite ap dps AM/Shammies running around.
People spends hours leveling and gearing their class or a specific spec only for you guys to come in and destroy it every few months even though it was NOT needed and nobody asked for this.
The classes in this case were decently viable, easy to counter, not saturated at all in RVR and already required more skill than 99% of classes in game.
This was clearly targeted by someone who had difficulty against dps or shield spec WP/DOKs, sorry to say but it looks very unprofessional and/or bias.
In the spirit of preventing the loss of even more players in the long run, we can start by removing all dps specs for "healing" archetype classes and rebuilding them from the ground if you're gonna waste so much time fixing a class or spec and then a few months later butchering it into the ground.
I will always love you guys and remain loyal to you and this server forever but I just had to confer my civil disagreement.
You are out of your mind if you think last week's patch nerfed shield spec WP/DoK "in to the ground." Shield spec was actually overperforming after the patch; though the intended effect of increased RF/SE usage was achieved, it wasn't enough of a usage increase to offset what essentially equated to the addition of a second resource pool to the spec. *I* along with several other top-end Grace/Sacrifice WP/DoKs recommended the reduction in RF/SE gain and the increase in RF/SE expenditure. If you think that the top-end people playing the spec recommending it gets toned down is "unprofessional" or shows "bias", then I am not sure you are arguing in good faith or with any semblance of knowledge.
Additionally, multiple devs work on multiple things. Because something that you feel requires the entire dev team's attention wasn't looked at this patch does not mean someone on the dev team isn't working on it.
Rydiak wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:47 pm
Mythrendir wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:20 pm
ReturnOfReckoning wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:58 pm
[Weekend Warfront: Return to Nordenwatch]
[Disciple of Khaine]
- Blood Offering: This ability no longer gives an extra tick of Soul Essence when it is interrupted. Casting it on the move only gives one tick now.
- Fist of Khaine: Lowered Soul Essence cost to 15.
- Consume Essence: Increased cost from 30 SE to 35 SE.
- Devour Essence: This is now classed as a Blessing and can be severed.
Let me start by saying I appreciate all your work but I need to express a frustration that I and many others are feelings atm about WP/DOK changes.
It was clear that people asked for the changes from the last patch on DOK and WarriorPriest to be reverted, and Devs' response to the community is to further/continue to nerf the class to the ground....?
All credibility in term of balancing the game is lost when you're doing changes to a small subspec species of dps/shield spec WP/DOk while we have other priorities, i.e. ranged kiting+infinite ap dps AM/Shammies running around.
People spends hours leveling and gearing their class or a specific spec only for you guys to come in and destroy it every few months even though it was NOT needed and nobody asked for this.
The classes in this case were decently viable, easy to counter, not saturated at all in RVR and already required more skill than 99% of classes in game.
This was clearly targeted by someone who had difficulty against dps or shield spec WP/DOKs, sorry to say but it looks very unprofessional and/or bias.
In the spirit of preventing the loss of even more players in the long run, we can start by removing all dps specs for "healing" archetype classes and rebuilding them from the ground if you're gonna waste so much time fixing a class or spec and then a few months later butchering it into the ground.
I will always love you guys and remain loyal to you and this server forever but I just had to confer my civil disagreement.
You are out of your mind if you think last week's patch nerfed shield spec WP/DoK "in to the ground." Shield spec was actually overperforming after the patch; though the intended effect of increased RF/SE usage was achieved, it wasn't enough of a usage increase to offset what essentially equated to the addition of a second resource pool to the spec. *I* along with several other top-end Grace/Sacrifice WP/DoKs recommended the reduction in RF/SE gain and the increase in RF/SE expenditure. If you think that the top-end people playing the spec recommending it gets toned down is "unprofessional" or shows "bias", then I am not sure you are arguing in good faith or with any semblance of knowledge.
Additionally, multiple devs work on multiple things. Because something that you feel requires the entire dev team's attention wasn't looked at this patch does not mean someone on the dev team isn't working on it.
Alright Rydiak my dear, back home so lets get into it,
1) Really.... no need to attempt to belittle people by calling them "out of their minds" or denying that I have any knowledge on the matter or questioning my good faith intentions just because we disagree with your opinion. Please re-read my post as I am talking about the last patch AND today's patch AND any future patches that attempt change the class for the worse, which many of us who actively play the class think this is the case. I am merely adding caution to these unnecessary decisions that have been made or are to come on these classes because I do not want to see this spec die and I don't want anymore of my dok/wp mates to quit the game because of class instability, uncertainty or changes due to a false perception that they are OP rather than learning how to counter the spec.
2) Please explain the how dps/shield DOKs are "overperforming" in rvr, citys or against kiting classes for example? It seems you are possibly using ranked SCs as the determinant and only indicator for class balance which still doesn't prove overperformance (very few doks/wps in leaderboards) and is a flawed metric considering considering Warham balance is centered around Warband-RVR type of gameplay.
3) Who are these "top-end" Grace/Sacrifice WP/DOKs you're referring to? I'd be very interested in doing a poll with them because my post was also voiced by "top-end" DOK/WPs who disagreed with changes or that there was even a need for these changes. Forgive me but I have sincere doubts that players would actively advocate for toning down their own class, let alone a class that is relatively easy to counter and is already the subject of taboo in warband RvR or city play. If the class was overperforming to the point you claim it to be, you would expect atleast to see some "top-end" people or victims of DOK/WP thunderously voicing in favor of "fixing" these "overperforming" specs, alas, not one forum post or ingame complain has ever centered around dok/wp being OP or needed any changes. In addition, the matter of who is "top-end" players has been quite controversial and without consensus when asking around.
4) I would be careful of only taking recommendations from these "top players" who don't play dps/shield DOK
AND WP for example, or if they play solely their mains on one faction and not the other.
5) Please do not put words in my mouth. I have the utmost respect and understanding for the devs/gms such as yourself. I know that devs are working on multiple things on their free time and I have never asked all the devs to devote their whole attention to one matter at any time. I was simply providing an example of other dps spec healing-type classes that also are in need of urgent discussion. If anything, I have attempted many times to quell the in-game hate and un-appreciation against the Dev team. The fact remains that is a plethora of "overperforming" classes in RVR, SCs, duel arenas so you cannot act perplexed when we come and ask you why in the world are you going after shield specs after finally making it viable and which already represent a non-gamebreaking threat to RvR balance.
6) For constructive purposes, Let me provide you with 2 quick examples of disagreement:
a) Why was fist of khaine/Judgement changed from AP to Essence/Fury? It a ranged attack that doesn't heal the self or your defensive target and thus should also be based on AP along with other pure damaging skills (if we are to use current patch logic). When it was based on AP, it was one of the very few ways to even act against kiting classes, allowing you to have essence available when reaching your target to try and heal.
b) If you're gonna reduce the damage dps output of the dok and thus its healing while propping up the WP, then give it the same defensiveness/heal potential of the WP ( a Wounds buff, Charged Fury (extra free fury), Grieve of sigmar and Grace of Sigmar tactics, 20% guaranteed root with Fist of khaine that judgement now has etc etc). I know you're gonna say to do a new suggestions post for these but there are many more examples and this but a taste of the current infighting happening ingame.
In Sum, my intentions are always about doing my share in maximizing the survival of this great "dead" game and the flourishing of its community for which I have come to make it as my main MMO Home for the past 5+ years. My greatest concern is when I see back n forth buffs and nerfs as it is one the main ways to kill a game and its pop. If that means that I have to live with the consequences and choices of the balancing decision you make so be it, but it does not means I have to agree with it. The best I can do is trust in you as I always have, keep testing the consequences of these changes and in the long term hopefully work together through constructive criticism to do any modifications necessary.
Thank you and as always, love you long time xox
