Return of Reckoning

Revert the changes.

Takedown 98 ft
Eyeshot 98 ft(and castable on the move)
Shadow sting 98 ft
with Tactic was good enough and was a lovely playstyle.

and now...Ba stacking(lol), expensive Glassarrow(Old Version was very good to fight against other ranged....).
The only good change was Acid Arrow for me the rest naja

jvlosky wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:32 pm I just would like to point out it is a bit wack that Barrage only drains 100 morale and while in veangance.

Within a 30 second window a marauder can drain 675 morale (225 morale every 10 seconds) with a lot more ease than a SW at full efficiency.

By default barrage drains only 100 morale while in veangance that is a 10 second buff every 30 seconds. So in a 30 second window SW can only drain 200 morale where Marauder gets to drain 675 in that same window with less use of global cooldowns, less use of AP and ease of use as they just have to hit one button and forget about it.

The debate can be said that 'OMG a SW with a SM using Whispering Winds lets you Spam Barrage during Veangance' Well even with an SM and no CD on Barrage you can only still get 6 Barrage spams within that same 30 second window (6 global cooldowns at 1.5 seconds each = 9 seconds) amount to only 600 morale drained.... for a **** ton more work... .and more synchronization..... for less output


This seems to be the general trend with Order vs Destro.


Also you have to put yourself in some dangerous territory to spam Barrage, you dont want to be frontline as a Skirmisher, where as Mara wants to be in your face cause... you know that is where they need to be to do all their dmg.


They both have a 40ft range btw.

Mara and SW mirrors of eahc other? or supposed to be i mean?

UnspeakableOath wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:22 pm I'm sure many SW players would be interested in hearing what POSITIVE changes this series of "adjustments" have made to SW viability. Please enlighten us, as many of the SW I have discussed the matter with are not seeing any light at the end of this tunnel in terms of PVP role.

What do you recommend in terms of rotation, build, tactics, gear, playstyle that we all seem to be missing?

mate you are a new player, and have never played SW from the begining. so stop sounds like you been in SW hell for years.. you clearly dont do RvR much..

I'm not a new player. I don't post on the forums for exactly this gatekeeping bs. How about instead you answer my question instead of diverting?

Nasurl wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:40 pm Mara and SW mirrors of eahc other? or supposed to be i mean?

sw dont have exact mirror, its sh/mara mix

cursedflesh wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:45 pm

Nasurl wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:40 pm Mara and SW mirrors of eahc other? or supposed to be i mean?

sw dont have exact mirror, its sh/mara mix

Oh ok i gotcha

Nasurl wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:40 pm

jvlosky wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:32 pm I just would like to point out it is a bit wack that Barrage only drains 100 morale and while in veangance.

Within a 30 second window a marauder can drain 675 morale (225 morale every 10 seconds) with a lot more ease than a SW at full efficiency.

By default barrage drains only 100 morale while in veangance that is a 10 second buff every 30 seconds. So in a 30 second window SW can only drain 200 morale where Marauder gets to drain 675 in that same window with less use of global cooldowns, less use of AP and ease of use as they just have to hit one button and forget about it.

The debate can be said that 'OMG a SW with a SM using Whispering Winds lets you Spam Barrage during Veangance' Well even with an SM and no CD on Barrage you can only still get 6 Barrage spams within that same 30 second window (6 global cooldowns at 1.5 seconds each = 9 seconds) amount to only 600 morale drained.... for a **** ton more work... .and more synchronization..... for less output


This seems to be the general trend with Order vs Destro.


Also you have to put yourself in some dangerous territory to spam Barrage, you dont want to be frontline as a Skirmisher, where as Mara wants to be in your face cause... you know that is where they need to be to do all their dmg.


They both have a 40ft range btw.

Mara and SW mirrors of eahc other? or supposed to be i mean?

Most classes have a 'mirror'. But....


There is a 4 way psuedo mirror between Shadow warrior > Squig Herder > White Lion > Marauder

White Lion and Marauder are supposed to fill the same roles, but have different mechanics
Squig Herder and White Lion are supposed to be kinda of the same mechanics wise because of the pet.
Shadow Warrior and Marauder are supposed to be similar Mechanics wise with the stances.
Shadow Warrior and Squig Herder are supposed to fill the same role.


You can see there is something wack here because mSH can fill the role of a melee with the same effectiveness of a White Lion, and Destro gets another melee in the form of mSH for city comps. Where as SW has no melee aoe and will probably soon be worse than Squig Herder in ranged as well.

jvlosky wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:51 pm

Nasurl wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:40 pm

jvlosky wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 4:32 pm I just would like to point out it is a bit wack that Barrage only drains 100 morale and while in veangance.

Within a 30 second window a marauder can drain 675 morale (225 morale every 10 seconds) with a lot more ease than a SW at full efficiency.

By default barrage drains only 100 morale while in veangance that is a 10 second buff every 30 seconds. So in a 30 second window SW can only drain 200 morale where Marauder gets to drain 675 in that same window with less use of global cooldowns, less use of AP and ease of use as they just have to hit one button and forget about it.

The debate can be said that 'OMG a SW with a SM using Whispering Winds lets you Spam Barrage during Veangance' Well even with an SM and no CD on Barrage you can only still get 6 Barrage spams within that same 30 second window (6 global cooldowns at 1.5 seconds each = 9 seconds) amount to only 600 morale drained.... for a **** ton more work... .and more synchronization..... for less output


This seems to be the general trend with Order vs Destro.


Also you have to put yourself in some dangerous territory to spam Barrage, you dont want to be frontline as a Skirmisher, where as Mara wants to be in your face cause... you know that is where they need to be to do all their dmg.


They both have a 40ft range btw.

Mara and SW mirrors of eahc other? or supposed to be i mean?

Most classes have a 'mirror'. But....


There is a 4 way psuedo mirror between Shadow warrior > Squig Herder > White Lion > Marauder

White Lion and Marauder are supposed to fill the same roles, but have different mechanics
Squig Herder and White Lion are supposed to be kinda of the same mechanics wise because of the pet.
Shadow Warrior and Marauder are supposed to be similar Mechanics wise with the stances.
Shadow Warrior and Squig Herder are supposed to fill the same role.


You can see there is something wack here because mSH can fill the role of a melee with the same effectiveness of a White Lion, and Destro gets another melee in the form of mSH for city comps. Where as SW has no melee aoe and will probably soon be worse than Squig Herder in ranged as well.

mSH = AoE DPS
rSH = Utility
Mar = Utility
aSW = Burst
rSW = Utility
WL = Burst/AoE/Utility

The team may need to consider dethroning King WL and giving some of that love to other classes. Theoretically, every DPS class should have a Utility, AoE, and ST Burst spec. Every dps class should be like a WL with viability in every role.

As someone mainly playing Squig herder I'm actually starting to feel a bit worried about any coming changes to the class because as a fellow ranged bow and arrow class I am struggling to see how some of these changes to ranged shadow warrior is supposed to make the class stronger or more viable for warband play. If anything it seems like ASW became a bit stronger? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I assume that the original idea about adding a morale drain ability to the skirmish tree was to make this specc more viable for warband play with aoe-abilities and so forth. But the quick reduction to the morale drain (from 250 to 100) and that it only works when VoN is active (10s active every 30s) makes it seem a bit weak. The reduction of the ranged tactic also forces this spec to stay dangerously close to the enemy front-line to be able to apply heal debuff, snare etc which is sort of contradicting to oRvR play since you'd want to stay behind your own frontline not in front of it. Is it only supposed to work if you run inside a blob where everyone runs in together into the melee?

The original changes to glass arrow was nice, especially in combination with rapid fire. However now with the most recent nerfs to it where it drains AP (forcing the user to have AP-tactic on) only procc once every second on scout abilities seems to make it really weak considering the relatively low dmg it outputs per procc.
The changes feels weird to me since Skirmish was the specc I assumed was being promoted.

Maybe I'm missing some significant thought or reasoning here but from my point of view it seems like ASW is still the preffered spec for Shadow Warriors to go which is a bit boring because then it doesnt really change anything. What am I missing?

Personally I would love for ranged Squig Herder and ranged Shadow Warrior to be more viable for Warband play and not so confined to their respective melee-spec.

I also think it's a pity that the organized warband meta seems to be so focused around only a handfull of classes and specs. If more classes became viable we might see a more varied mix of setups and tactics being used which could add some interesting new playstyles and tactics to WB vs WB